Formula ford 2013.

[FFmygale]

And that is the conundrum the organisers face isn't it..... whilst I understand the reasons for a testing ban it doesn't help this type of situation at all (although saying that I am not actually sure if the testing ban is in force yet as it has been put back a few times).

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by FFmygale

And that is the conundrum the organisers face isn't it..... whilst I understand the reasons for a testing ban it doesn't help this type of situation at all (although saying that I am not actually sure if the testing ban is in force yet as it has been put back a few times).

Yes you are quite correct the commencement of the "ban" was put back but I believe it is now in force. However as far as I am aware there isn't a total testing ban. It only applies to circuits that are still to feature in the schedule. So therefore nothing to prevent testing at circuits already visited such as Brands/Donington or "nuetral" tracks.

[BtccLee]

Cammish makes it 9 from 9: http://www.britishformulaford.co.uk/...r-cammish-jtr/

He is in a class of his own but the racing behind was entertaining...

So, we now have a four week break, during which I expect another few cars to join the grid...

And then the 6 week summer break, during which we could maybe see the Beta Epsilon and Ray runners...

By the end of the year I would reckon a grid of about 16-20 then...

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Cammish makes it 9 from 9: http://www.britishformulaford.co.uk/...r-cammish-jtr/

He is in a class of his own but the racing behind was entertaining...

So, we now have a four week break, during which I expect another few cars to join the grid...

And then the 6 week summer break, during which we could maybe see the Beta Epsilon and Ray runners...

By the end of the year I would reckon a grid of about 16-20 then...

Hmmm......sorry to say this because I am a long time fan of Formula Ford but I think you are being a tad over optimistic there.

Only 11 cars started race 3 this afternoon. Williams went home yesterday and Wagner didn't make the start.

The only driver capable of seriously challenging Dan Cammish, Scott Malvern, was unfortunately forced out of the championship through no fault of his own at Donington.

I'd be extremely surprised if Ray or Beta Episilon build cars to compete in this years championship.

Not sure where these other drivers and cars are going to come from? There are basically 14 cars available at the moment. 12 Mygale & 2 Sinter. Driver names may change through the season but I'm not optimistic that grid numbers will increase. The extra cars just don't exist.

William Hill would have closed the book by now. No more bets. Pay out on Cammish.

[BtccLee]

I think it will grow but if it doesn't and FIA F4 does come to the UK as Formula Renault 1.6 next year, it could be forced out of the market completely...

[gomick]

Cammish should become the most winningest FFord driver in the UK if he continues this form up all season...

[EastonNeston]

Having seen all 3 series that are aiming at the same pool of drivers this season, I have a few observations.
Having 3 series on offer for a pool of about 50 drivers actually just serves to dilute to depth of talent in each series.
FFord is the weakest of the 3 series, in my opinion, based on the depth of talent through the field & the quality of preparation and presentation of the teams.
The repeated mechanical failure alternators and other Ford specified parts does nothing to help the series, or to encourage drivers & teams to stay involved. Also, the cars with the mandated wing and sidepod shapes are not attractive, again in my opinion.
Whilst there are some talented new drivers in FFord, Brabham, Scott, Rosso & Mazarana the value of their drives is been reduced as the series is totally dominated by a vastly more experienced driver who is doing a good and very competent job, however in an ideal world Dan Cammish would be racing at a higher level more appropriate to his ability and experience.
It would be better for the British racing industry if one of these 3 formula after the same pool of drivers was abandoned at the end of this season, and based on the current evidence, the weakest of the 3 in FFord.

[simon drabble]

I needed to meet Lindsay so went and saw the last FF of the day on Saturday. Without question the lead car walked it, in fact if he had pushed himself it looked like he was going to lap one of his team mates!

However as a progression series it begs the question as to what he is doing there and I would ask the same about Scot Malvern. Going and smashing inexperienced drivers will not get teams attention, look at Anti Buri - wants to get into GT but I haven't seen him out racing this season. On a separate note I will be interested to see how Eric Lichenstein gets on in GP3, he was without any doubt the best driver last year.

Eastern Neston's comments on dilution are correct and if FF is the casualty a real shame. By contrast I was at Rockingham yesterday watching Ginettas and BGT and saw full grids everywhere with tight racing all done the field.

[edenrace]

Quite simply we did not need F4....BARC Renault is cheap racing with good cars. Formula Ford is a step above and a good feeder to higher categories.

[peebee2]

The new F4 has filled a gap in the market for a WELL RUN, WELL PROMOTED series that has credible PR and is seen to provide good value for money.

Formula Ford has been mismanaged for years, with people stuck in the past who have totally lost all vision of what they should be trying to provide. Much like British F3.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by peebee2

The new F4 has filled a gap in the market for a WELL RUN, WELL PROMOTED series that has credible PR and is seen to provide good value for money.

Formula Ford has been mismanaged for years, with people stuck in the past who have totally lost all vision of what they should be trying to provide. Much like British F3.

It's even worse than that though isn't it?

Ford are the only multi billion pound, international, stock market company involved here but somehow, through incompetence or by accident, they have managed to (excruciatingly slowly) destroy the most valuable brand that has ever existed in pre-Formula One motor sport.

Whoever is responsible for the marketing of Ford's corporate image through motorsport has been very badly advised. Their strategy is wrong, even the implementation of their flawed strategy is wrong. It is a disaster.

It's not people "stuck in the past" that is the problem for Ford, It's people stuck in what they perceive the future, without even giving a passing nod to the past that is the problem.

[Philippe Layac]

Hi guys,

Haven't been a competitor and a team manager in the Formula Ford championship from 2007 to 2012, i reckon i can maybe say a few things about the actual situation in the UK.

First of all it's a great shame that the Duratec championship has been almost removed of the racing scene, cars were great to drive and level of competition was really high with up to 35 cars at the eurocup.
What was wrong in that championship?

I understand and respect the fact that these cars were looking a bit old if you compare them with F.Renault, F3 etc mainly due to the fact that they didn't have wings.
Gearboxes were not great either as to be competitive you had to spend quite a great deal of money to have them prepared and lightened etc, also again maybe modernity was a problem with all the other classes having sequential boxes.

The fact that big teams were changing chassis every year didn't help either maybe.

Now I don't really understand the fuss about the new F4:

-cars have a Duratec engine that is a proven technology, gearboxes are sequential and like the engines are sealed which is good for keeping costs low.
-the price of the cars is decent.
-price for parts is quite good too.
-they have wings, like in the 80's with the FF2000 that guys like Senna drove.
-you won't probably have to replace chassis every year and there's apparently no expensive update kits to come.

To me this the new born Formula Ford Duratec championship.
Mr Palmer has understood this time that it's better for business and competition to leave teams run these cars instead of his organisation which by the way does an excellent job in running the series.

Maybe some will say that it's a shame there are no more other constructors left but to be honest and without wanting to slag anyone off, almost everyone was running a Mygale chassis by the end of the 2011 championship.

In this difficult economic climate i think a few things are key if you want to have decent grids:

-keeping costs relatively low, you can do a full season in F4 for around £90K including everything like insurance, hotels etc and with 10 test days in a championship that has a great visibility.

-providing customers with reliable cars, this car is an improved Duratec chassis with excellent gearbox and really strong engine.

-giving customers and the championship a chance to be at the same level of modernity than in the other championship, having wings and sequential gearboxes is something almost mandatory these days if you want to be able to attract young drivers at that level.

Ok the chassis is not made with carbon fibre but does it really matter, never heard of someone being killed in a Duratec car so far.
No live TV coverage for now but once again, it's gonna help sponsorship seeing their investment back at that level.

In the end the car is quick, reliable, modern and is being run very professionally still allowing privateers the hope of fighting for the win.

I went to the first meeting, spoke to a few drivers and they all seemed pretty happy about it, for a first time and despite the fact that some drivers were quite inexperienced, racing was quite close, cars could overtake each other and at least they were more than 20 on the grid.

When you know that the first cars were delivered only in january and when you see how many drivers are on the Ecoboost grid maybe it's time to say well done to Jonathan Palmer for once?

[Philippe Layac]

*not is missing when i was talking about live coverage

[brakedisc]

"It's even worse than that though isn't it?

Ford are the only multi billion pound, international, stock market company involved here but somehow, through incompetence or by accident, they have managed to (excruciatingly slowly) destroy the most valuable brand that has ever existed in pre-Formula One motor sport.

Whoever is responsible for the marketing of Ford's corporate image through motorsport has been very badly advised. Their strategy is wrong, even the implementation of their flawed strategy is wrong. It is a disaster.

It's not people "stuck in the past" that is the problem for Ford, It's people stuck in what they perceive the future, without even giving a passing nod to the past that is the problem."

Well said that man.

[BtccLee]

I still maintain grids will improve and that the series will end the year quite healthily. However, the weakest series at the end of this year will probably "die" if FIA F4 comes and right now, sadly that is Formula Ford.

I have everyting crossed this will work...

[EastonNeston]

To be realistic, anyone, team &/or driver joining the series now is unlikely to be fully competitive, due to lack of testing and development on their car, & probably lack of budget too.

Any drivers will a 'full' budget have already taken a seat in one of the three championships aimed at this market sector.

I don't think that the market can sustain three championships at this level.

[Redracer77]

There seems to be a bit of criticism for Dan Cammish for winning the first 9 races and the amount of experience he has. Can we just remember that Dan didn’t complete one race last year as he damaged his back in a Formula Renault crash during the 1st round which put him out all season. The season before he raced very well beating the likes of Josh Hill but only had a shoestring budget and missed the first 6 races. Other than that, he has raced a couple of seasons in Formula Ford and a handful of races in ADAC. But let’s face it, the likes of Luke Williams and Andy Richardson and James Abbott have done a great deal more races than Dan. We have to also remember that Dan qualified on the front row for his first ever formula ford race and then got pole in his second ever race… against the likes of Josef Newgarden, Scott Pye and James Cole. The reason Dan is at the front is because he is the most talented out of all the drivers on the grid and is supported by his Dad who has more passion for motorsport than most of the rest of the world put together and they are racing because they love it. They know that it is pretty unlikely that Dan will get to Formula One but they want to race in a Championship that is cost effective (in motorsport terms) and offers good running and exposure as all the family love supporting Dan. Well done to them for putting a car on the grid. I am sure Dan was as disappointed as Scott when he had his car pulled from him as one thing Dan is not and that is scarred of racing against anyone that is put in front of him.

Keep up the good work buddy as all the hard work is paying off.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

There seems to be a bit of criticism for Dan Cammish for winning the first 9 races and the amount of experience he has. Can we just remember that Dan didn’t complete one race last year as he damaged his back in a Formula Renault crash during the 1st round which put him out all season. The season before he raced very well beating the likes of Josh Hill but only had a shoestring budget and missed the first 6 races. Other than that, he has raced a couple of seasons in Formula Ford and a handful of races in ADAC. But let’s face it, the likes of Luke Williams and Andy Richardson and James Abbott have done a great deal more races than Dan. We have to also remember that Dan qualified on the front row for his first ever formula ford race and then got pole in his second ever race… against the likes of Josef Newgarden, Scott Pye and James Cole. The reason Dan is at the front is because he is the most talented out of all the drivers on the grid and is supported by his Dad who has more passion for motorsport than most of the rest of the world put together and they are racing because they love it. They know that it is pretty unlikely that Dan will get to Formula One but they want to race in a Championship that is cost effective (in motorsport terms) and offers good running and exposure as all the family love supporting Dan. Well done to them for putting a car on the grid. I am sure Dan was as disappointed as Scott when he had his car pulled from him as one thing Dan is not and that is scarred of racing against anyone that is put in front of him.

Keep up the good work buddy as all the hard work is paying off.

There is a lot of critiscm for the series in general. Yes currently BRDC F4 and FRenault BARC are strong and both are fantastic series. But Formula Ford can and shall survive too. Yes 12 cars is small but it will grown, Ford have said they can work from here. They have invested a lot put it on the TOCA package and provided a series drivers want, not what fans think it should be. When Rayand Beta Epsilon arrive we will have four chassis manufactures making it the perfect training ground for mechanics and drivers. The arrival of these teams plus others mean we will have a much stronger second half of the year and 2014. FIA F4 is coming and yes if the series doesn't grow it will die but when it does, FIA F4 may simply not be a factor. I looked round the paddock at Thruxton and yes the teams are rather small but they will grow with the series. Oulton and Snetterton will see more cars and then Formula Ford will be back. It's just a shame so few have supported it though a difficult transition period...

Now, there was a lot of news pre-season, so any rumours on teams assessing the series...

[GolddustMini]

but do the cars actually exist for drivers to drive? i know sinter are making a few more chassis but are there cars lying around waiting for drivers (im assuming scott malvern drove the ex cullen/race car consultants car) are there any other chassis about?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

im assuming scott malvern drove the ex cullen/race car consultants car

Malvern was in the ex-Cullen car.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

There seems to be a bit of criticism for Dan Cammish for winning the first 9 races and the amount of experience he has.
.

I really don't think there has been any criticism of Dan Cammish on here. He's clearly the class of the field now Malvern has gone. Good luck to him, he deserves his success.

The criticism seems to be of the organisers and Ford for losing the plot with the Formula Ford concept. Tiny grids and high costs are one factor.

I'm not personally convinced the car is actually "entry level" material anyway. It's certainly fast but whether or not it's suitable for complete novices only time will tell. Certainly when you see the experienced leader backing off two seconds a lap and still winning at a canter it must make you wonder surely?

[bella]

hmm, i was just thinking "well, if it was entry level then surely novices should be able to come in and win" because any form of single seater experience wouldn't be an advantage, but is that right?

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by bella

hmm, i was just thinking "well, if it was entry level then surely novices should be able to come in and win" because any form of single seater experience wouldn't be an advantage, but is that right?

I think entry level cars should be relatively easy to drive and straightforward to set up, that's for sure. A good proven karter I would expect to be up and running pretty quickly.

The Ford has slicks and wings sure, but far less downforce than a Renault with what appears to be a more powerful engine. So maybe it's actually trickier to drive, needs to be allowed to move about more than a novice is comfortable with to get the best out of it?

I might be talking complete rubbish, but there's something not quite right to me about Cammish (and Malvern) being so much faster and the only thing I can think of, apart obviously from talent, is relative experience of non-winged formulae?

[BtccLee]

Well that's 13, and where the Cullen/Malvern car went: http://www.britishformulaford.co.uk/...-jamun-racing/

Very interesting, looking at next year too..

As a side note, do we think Scott Malvern will return this year?

Plus, on the website Ross Gunn is listed as having signed up but we haven't seen him yet???

And what happened to Neil Winn, I know he missed Donington for personal reasons but has he been dropped by Falcon for David Wagner?

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Well that's 13, and where the Cullen/Malvern car went: http://www.britishformulaford.co.uk/...-jamun-racing/

Very interesting, looking at next year too..

As a side note, do we think Scott Malvern will return this year?

Plus, on the website Ross Gunn is listed as having signed up but we haven't seen him yet???

And what happened to Neil Winn, I know he missed Donington for personal reasons but has he been dropped by Falcon for David Wagner?

Scott was out in an F4 car at Brands Hatch today and very quick as well. Wouldn't be surprised if he jumped ship for the opposition after the way he's been treated! To paraphrase a very well known Portugese Football manager "everyone wants to go where they are loved"