Group B MG Metro 6R4 History

[DFP]

I hope these photo's are of interest, they were taken at a bl test i attended
in Clumber forest in perhaps 1986-87?.

[MG Rover Sport]

Interest? Are you kidding me DFP, they're simply awesome!

Photos like these are always of great interest due to their limited availability. There can't have been many people there on that day with cameras strapped around their necks, so you must move in very exclusive circles DPF - either that or you were very fortunate!

Anymore from the same day?

Looking at the actual car being used, I reckon we're talking early 1987. The Computervision livery has now gone and the plain white car is gradually evolving into an SMC / Mobil liveried car which is what the team used on the 1987 Marlboro RAC British National Rally Championship.

If you remember right, Malcolm Wilson / Nigel Harris were used by the team and appeared in the series as a benchmark for the vast number of drivers who had acquired 6R4s at the discounted rate.

[DFP]

[QUOTE=MG Rover Sport;2658564]Interest? Are you kidding me DFP, they're simply awesome!

Photos like these are always of great interest due to their limited availability. There can't have been many people there on that day with cameras strapped around their necks, so you must move in very exclusive circles DPF - either that or you were very fortunate!

Anymore from the same day?

Looking at the actual car being used, I reckon we're talking early 1987. The Computervision livery has now gone and the plain white car is gradually evolving into an SMC / Mobil liveried car which is what the team used on the 1987 Marlboro RAC British National Rally Championship.

If you remember right, Malcolm Wilson / Nigel Harris were used by the team and appeared in the series as a benchmark for the vast number of drivers who had acquired 6R4s at the discounted rate.[/QUOTE


There are a few more which i'll try and post this evening, although they aren't the best quality.
As you say above the day was set up by BL for about a dozen of us, ten people (and their navigators who spent the day with, i think rob arthur) from rallying,one from hillclimbing(Ken Sims?)and myself from rallycross.

we spent the day with Malcolm Wilson. i won't forget his very aggresive driving style and how close the tree's were! He said some thing like "you have to pick it up and ring its neck to make it work" i was so frightened of breaking the thing or hitting a tree(we dont have trees in rallycross) i was probably the slowest.

There were two cars on offer that day but the battery fell out of the other one and side lined it for the rest of the day!.
We had to leave early so i dont know what the results were, suffice to say the day worked and i ended up buying a rolling shell. Happy Memories!!

[MG Rover Sport]

I've been thinking a little more about this day, and I seem to think Austin Rover Motorsport organised a (sort of) Ride & Drive Day before the 1987 motorsport season started. It was basically for anyone who had acquired a car (or was thinking about it) to give them the opportunity to learn from the driver, co-driver and mechanics about using the car in competition - I'm pretty sure this day took place in Clumber so could well be the same one that you attended DPF?

I'll try and look back and find the date of the test to see if you agree with the timing.

I'd also like to see which other car they had available on the day DPF, as well as any location photos showing works support vehicles, team personnel, etc if you have anything along those lines.

I've tried to ID the driver of the first photo, and all I know is that it isn't Malcolm, but could be someone else connected with the team as his overalls have an Austin Rover Motorsport logo on his shoulder - or were the overalls supplied by the team on the day?

So what happened to your rolling shell DPF? Have you still got it, as I would be more than happy to pay 1987 price for it, including a little extra for your time of course!

[MG Rover Sport]

In fact, thinking about your username being DPF and with you having a rallycross background, I think I know who you are AND what happened to your rolling shell - we have even spoken in the past if my suspicions are indeed correct.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gloves

This one is from Brands Hatch.. not sure if its a race meeting or a sprint, or if indeed the same driver. Certainly early ninties.

Same car at Snetterton

Could that be during John McKerrell's ownership? 'early 90's' would be about the right period. I'd agree with you about it being a sprint or race meeting- I did wonder briefly if the top pic was one of the occasional single-venue rallies run at Brands about 1990/91-ish.....but then I spotted the lack of anyone in the co-driver's seat in the Brands pic...

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I can't see the photos Gloves - KA had problems last night as well?

Connected or a sheer fluke?

no, it was definitely a problem with the actual attachments for my pics- I'll report them later...

[MG Rover Sport]

It is indeed John McKerrell KA, either that or someone else that John lent / hired the car to, as he often did if I remember right - Peter Keel and Sarah Johnston being two that I can think of at the moment.

Leave it with me...

[DFP]

As promised more photo's. Baby sitting duties prevent me replying fully to your post,(grandparents are cheaper than babysitters)but i will put my brain into gear and reply tomorrow. i'm sorry to have to tell you that the driver in the first photo is indeed Malcolm Wilson.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by KA

no, it was definitely a problem with the actual attachments for my pics- I'll report them later...

Ta muchly - looking forward to seeing them.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by DFP

As promised more photo's. Baby sitting duties prevent me replying fully to your post,(grandparents are cheaper than babysitters)but i will put my brain into gear and reply tomorrow. i'm sorry to have to tell you that the driver in the first photo is indeed Malcolm Wilson.

Know exactly what you mean DFP about baby sitting, although my Grandson is now only a little over 11 days old, so Mum hasn't really been out long / far enough to class it as 'real' baby sitting.

I acknowledge your confirmation of it being Malcolm, as you were actually there on the day. It seems to make sense with the overalls I pointed out too.

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

OK, some more pics. I don't have much in the way of 6R4 rally pics, but plenty of rallycross
We've already had quite a few pics of Will Gollop's car, so I won't post any more of that for now- I'll concentrate instead on some of the cars we haven't seen so much of in the thread- plus a couple of mysteries....

First off, Steve Palmer. Think I posted a link earlier to a pic of Palmer's 6R4 in the original blue/white Practica Computers colours. These were replaced by a more extrovert blue/pink/yellow scheme.


After the loss of the Practica sponsorship, Palmer often ran without sponsorship, with the car in a blue/white/green paintjob. He sometimes had sponsorship from 'Dianetics'- quite a lot of UK rallycross drivers appeared with Dianetics decals on their cars at various events, mostly one-off deals for individual meetings I think.


From the Brands Rallycross GP in '91 I think, Palmer had sponsorship from Panasonic Batteries- the 6R4 appearing in a distinctive yellow/black scheme- and no, I don't know why he's heading in a totally different direction to everyone else in the pic- it probably explains why the pic was out of focus though- a case of point and shoot as something unexpected happens...


The fourth pic shows a 6R4 in 'Car Glass' colours- I think this might be Palmer again- I seem to recall him running in Car Glass colours (a car leased from the Belgian outfit?) at a few events? Not sure about this- I suspect it's more likely to be Paul Kumpen(?), but for some reason I have the idea that I saw Palmer drive a Car Glass-backed Metro at some point?

Paul Kumpen & Rob Gibson, Maasmechlen 1990- pic by Eddi Laumanns I think- Dianetics stickers in evidence on Gibson's car again....
http://www.rallycrossforum.at/downlo...e577edbd38ca43

OK- second attempt at these pics....

[DFP]

[/QUOTE]I'd also like to see which other car they had available on the day DPF, as well as any location photos showing works support vehicles, team personnel, etc if you have anything along those lines.
[QUOTE]

I've spoken to the photographer and neither of us can remember which car it was, i seem to remember it was another well known reg no at the time, ie one that had been used by the team. He's going to look in the loft
and see if there are any more of the day, He's fairly certain there's some of my car anyway.

Photos like these are always of great interest due to their limited availability. There can't have been many people there on that day with cameras strapped around their necks, so you must move in very exclusive circles DPF - either that or you were very fortunate!

I think i just happened to be in the right place at the right time - certainly
nothing exclusive and very definately fortunate.

So what happened to your rolling shell DPF? Have you still got it, as I would be more than happy to pay 1987 price for it, including a little extra for your time of course!

It was sold after deciding that my miniscule budget couldn't stretch to £28k + vat for an international spec engine from a very well known engine builder.

the car was sold to Murray Grierson who installed a hart420r engine and hewland 2wd Gearbox and won the scottish championship .correct me if i'm wrong, i'm sure you will have more info than me, perhaps you can let know?


I wonder what it would be worth if i still had it? the gearbox went to Rob Gibson in exchange for his 911- but thats another story. The only thing i have left is a seat and perhaps a steering rack

In fact, thinking about your username being DPF and with you having a rallycross background, I think I know who you are AND what happened to your rolling shell - we have even spoken in the past if my suspicions are indeed correct.

i'm afraid you have the advantage, although i can remember a conversation some years ago.

I have to say that i'm realy enjoying this thread especially the rallycross pictures, i have very few pictures of this era and it brings back a few happy memories.

[MG Rover Sport]

Many thanks for eventually loading the Steve Palmer images KA - I'll come back on them shortly if that's OK?

Looking forward to seeing what else the photographer has on file DFP, especially if he can confirm which other team car was used on that day.

Having confirmed that you sold your shell to Murray also confirms the fact that my thoughts were indeed correct about your identity. To fill you in a little more, my name is David Sims, and since 1984 I've been trying to compile a record of each 6R4 built.

In the late 1980s I certainly rang around quite a few owners, teams, etc for information. I also usually followed up every press advert for a car or shell For Sale to find out the ID, where it came from, and history, the individual's plans, and later who it was sold to - maybe that is when I spoke to you DFP?

If I remember right - I'm at work! - wasn't your rolling shell also used in the RRS Racewear adverts at the time? Looked excellent draped in models in crisp new overalls - even though the 'trained eye' could tell it was a little high due to the lack of the V64V in the back!

I later went on to produce the 6R4 Owners Club newsletter, write a 6R4 Register column for the MGCC magazine Safety Fast, and then produced my own 6R4 dedicated newsletter entitled 6R4news.

I'm sure we've spoken before...

[chunterer]

David did you ever have any contact with a guy called David Harper who was the ARG Motorsport Press Manager around the time the 6R4 came out?

I spoke to him about 4 years ago completely by accident and he seemed a decent bloke - think he ended up working for one of the big Business Process/IT Consultancies?

I was thinking iof getting back in touch with him to invite him on but have no idea how to get hold of him (assuming he's not already here!!!)

[MG Rover Sport]

Sorry mate, but David Harper isn't a name I am familiar with.

The two individuals that I knew on the PR side of things were Kevin Jones and Scott Brownlee. Kevin was at Rover right up until they went 'pop' - but I have since lost touch with him.

Another name I've seen on the bottom of press material was Lorraine Parramore.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Sorry mate, but David Harper isn't a name I am familiar with.

The two individuals that I knew on the PR side of things were Kevin Jones and Scott Brownlee. Kevin was at Rover right up until they went 'pop' - but I have since lost touch with him.

Another name I've seen on the bottom of press material was Lorraine Parramore.

Ok David, second thoughts I think the name i'm thinking of is Colin Harper, not David?

[MG Rover Sport]

Still not a name I've heard of before, sorry.

[Gloves]

Ok , hear's a couple more to try and remember....

C867 EUD is the ex-works car see here drag racing at Avon Park I think in 1990.


This one is at Snetterton, same rally as the one I posted earlier. Anyone know who this is?

[BertMk2]

A few shots of some more of the usual rallycross suspects: Rob Gibson, Ian Rowlance and George Tracey as well as an upside down Lawrence Gibson, not sure if that was the end of that shell? He certainly wrote one off a few years back - after selling his spare shell which he then bought back I believe. The other shot is from Stoneleigh.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by Gloves

Ok , hear's a couple more to try and remember....

C867 EUD is the ex-works car see here drag racing at Avon Park I think in 1990.


This one is at Snetterton, same rally as the one I posted earlier. Anyone know who this is?

The blue / white C867 EUD is Bryan Howells in the ex-Pat Doran car, and the blue / yellow car at Snetterton is the ex-Michelin test car of Clive Faine Q637 NRO. The latter car is the one that Lyndon Barton rolled famously on Epynt in 1998 - it's on youtube for definite if anyone hasn't seen it.

[Gloves]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

The blue / white C867 EUD is Bryan Howells in the ex-Pat Doran car, and the blue / yellow car at Snetterton is the ex-Michelin test car of Clive Faine Q637 NRO. The latter car is the one that Lyndon Barton rolled famously on Epynt in 1998 - it's on youtube for definite if anyone hasn't seen it.

I salute your vast 6R4/metro/BL/Austin Rover/Rover Group knowledge. I'll try harder next time to catch you out!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Gloves

I salute your vast 6R4/metro/BL/Austin Rover/Rover Group knowledge. I'll try harder next time to catch you out!

Ha ha he does seem to be a particularly good specialist!

MGRS, do you know anything about anything else?

[MG Rover Sport]

Gents, you are far too kind! I might however decide on a slightly different stance now, and lurk in the background of this topic to give others the opportunity to post instead - I think I've frightened everyone off!

I know very little about 6R4s in all honesty 'chunterer' - it's simply a sheer coincidence that I happen to know about the ones that people have asked about!

Time for others to contribute now I think...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Gents, you are far too kind! I might however decide on a slightly different stance now, and lurk in the background of this topic to give others the opportunity to post instead - I think I've frightened everyone off!

I know very little about 6R4s in all honesty 'chunterer' - it's simply a sheer coincidence that I happen to know about the ones that people have asked about!

Time for others to contribute now I think...

Hey, no problem at all, the more experts we have the better, and different members have different areas of more specialist knowledge, it helps promote discussion not take away from it.

With you it seems it's all ARG activity, wheras the likes of KA, Jesper and I tend to have concentrated on touring car racing, some of us it's older stuff etc.. and with me it's a combo of touring cars and single seaters if you like with very little to add about the rallying apart from a little knowledge about the latter days of Grp B and early part of Grp A I suppose.

Please carry on, and whilst you're on if there's any other topics you want to start threads about please go ahead!!

Would be nice to see more historic rallying discussion!