Historic Granturismo challenge (GT2)

[Fogelhund]

Hopefully the moderators allow this to stay here, as it is Historic related, and would likely get lost elsewhere.

I've gotten bored with GT3, and went back to GT2. (Computer won't properly run F12002 )

This series has been run a number of times, with great success, and should have over 20 entries, maybe more.

Bodysnatcher from Ten-tenths has run in every season to date, and I hope he joins in again.

Here is a copy and paste from granturismo.com where the series originated. If there is sufficient interest here, I'll continue doing updates here as well. So far, we already have 12 entries in the first day of signups.

Welcome another running of the Historic Sportscar Racing Series for the GT2 platform. This series is in its sixth season, and has been my favourite GT2 series. The cars are incredibly competitive and we have been lucky enough to have some of the best drivers, and closest competition around.

Many drivers in the past have chosen to drive multiple cars, with multiple nicks. Feel free to do so here, but just clearly mark what your ‘alter-nick’ will be so nobody is confused.



Past Champions

Season 1 - Soccerboy - Datsun 240Z
Season 2 - Fogelhund - Lotus Europa
Season 3 - Didi - Lotus Elan
Season 4- Fogelhund - Camaro
Season 5 - Didi - Lotus Elan
Season 6 - Fogelhund - Camaro

The Racing prepared Class
Rover Mini 1275 Mark 1
1964 Lotus Elan S2
71' Datsun/Nissan 240Z
Lancia Stratos
Lotus Europa
83' Mazda RX-7 GT-Turbo
86' Toyota MR2 1600G-Limited
71' Nissan Skyline
68' Toyota 2000GT
Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evo
66' Shelby GT350
69 Camaro Z28
67' Corvette Stingray
82’ Corvette Stingray
71’ Lotus Elan

Note The administrative staff reserves the rights to modify options available on the cars should certain marques be too far ahead, or behind the other cars. These modifications, will only happen after the second race, and will be enforced for the balance of the schedule.


All cars in the Racing prepared class come equipped with;
Racing Bodies
Any Tires (except where noted)
Full Suspension Modifications
Full Brakes Modifications
Full Drivetrain Modifications

Introducing the cars


Rover Mini 1275 Mark 1
239 hp, 1543lb...to be raced as is from the dealership

1964 Lotus Elan S2
All engine/power options can be purchased from the dealership
210 hp 1252 lb

1971 Lotus Elan S4
All engine/power options can be purchased from the dealership
210hp 1362lb

71' Datsun/Nissan 240Z
NA Tune Stage 2
Port & Polish
Engine Balance
Displacement
Semi-Race Muffler
263hp 1985lb

Lancia Stratos
Racing Muffler
NA Tune Stage 2
Engine Balance
Port & Polish
Performance Chip
273 hp 1924 lb

Lotus Europa
Engine Balance
Turbo Stage 2
Port & Polish
Semi-Racing Muffler
Performance Chip
237hp 1432lb

83' Mazda RX-7 GT-Turbo
Performance Chip
Engine Balance
Stage 1 turbo
Racing Muffler
Port & Polish
Intercooler Stage 1
2003lb. 257hp

86' Toyota MR2 1600G-Limited
Performance Chip
Port & Polish
Engine Balance
Stage 3 Turbo
Sport Muffler
2063 lb 266hp

71' Nissan Skyline
Racing Muffler
Stage 3 Turbo
2162lb 305hp

68' Toyota 2000GT
Turbo Stage 2
Port & Polish
Engine Balance
Sport Muffler
2250lb 296hp

Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evo
Turbo Stage 2
Racing Muffler
308hp 2447lb

66' Shelby GT350
Performance Chip
Sport Muffler
2388lb. 325hp

69 Camaro Z28
Racing Chip
Stage 3 NA Tune
Racing Muffler
Port & Polish
2888 lb 418hp

67' Corvette Stingray
you must use soft tires
No Engine modifications
2888lb 433hp

82’ Corvette Stingray
NA Tune Stage 3
Engine Balance
Port & Polish
351hp 2854lb.


There is no limit to the number of drivers choosing the same car

General Guidelines and Rules

We expect everybody to race cleanly, and within regular OLR guidelines. The series, including any protests or time inquiries is being run under granturismo.com race guidelines. If you are not familiar with these, please read the OLR FAQ at granturismo.com http://forum.granturismo.com/showth...?threadid=46235

Lack of knowledge of rules is not an excuse to break them.


While this is not a dex certified series, you should be prepared to defend your times with a detailed RTI (I'll give you a format), and in extreme cases, we might require some type of save. While I would like to believe that everybody is honest, a select few have proved me wrong. I generally run most of the cars at each track that is run, and have a pretty good idea of what is possible. I would not recommend trying to pull a fast one here, you will be spotted.

There will be random requests for a detailed RTI, or dex save. The placements of these random RTI will be determined before the start of each race.

I am looking for a couple of volunteers who are PAL users, who can check DEX saves, for those who prefer DEX over RTI.

Save your runs I would highly recommend that you always save your fastest runs, so that you can provide details later on.

You must have two wheels on something paved at all times. This includes the curbs, rumbles strips and the two paved sections on the inside of the curbs at Rome Night. For the purpose of this series, if you can see more than two wheels off the track from the above replay view, the time is invalid. ANY touch of any wall, guardrail, building.. regardless of how hard will rule a time invalid.


Scoring
Our point system is based on the system that NASCAR uses

1. 175
2. 170
3. 165
4. 160
5. 155
6. 150
7. 146
8. 142
9. 138
10. 134
11. 130
12. 127
13. 124
14. 121
15. 118
16. 115
17. 112
18. 109
19. 106
20. 103
21. 100
22. 97
23. 94
24. 91
25. 88
26. 85
27. 82
28. 79
29. 76
30. 73 and so on........

Submission format

If you live in North America please use SpeedvisionGT2@netscape.net only for time submissions.

If you live outside of North America... Europe, Australia... please both e-mail and Private Message me your time submissions.

This is to prevent e-mail delay problems experienced in the past particularly from our European friends.

Please submit only using the prescribed format at each event.

At minimum ie.

Fogelhund
Camaro
Midfield

Total Time

Sector 1
Sector 2
Sector 3
Sector 4

Top Speed

Schedule

TEST SESSION – Deep Forest Reverse - May 24




Race 1 SSR5 Clubman - May 31
Race 2 Red Rock Valley Reverse - June 7
Race 3 Tahiti Road Reverse - June 14
Race 4 Autumn Ring Reverse - June 21





All races are your fastest lap in Time Trial, unlimited runs.

[gttouring]

well this sound quite fun, how can i port time fom my PS2 or is that even possible? and how exactly can you run these (Is there a GT for PC?) other wise I get the time trial Ideas Kudos for this.
I haven't tried this yet so I would like to be more informed.

[Fogelhund]

You can use your PS2, but you'll need the GT2 game.

There is a mode in the game called Time Trial, you basically run your car, modified to the specifications above, and then email to me your fastest time.

[Lee Janotta]

Ah. Perfect opportunities for fudging scores. But sure, count me in.

[TimD]

moderator note:

I'm going to leave a redirect in the Historic Forum, but this is a computer sim, and as such there is a place for it in the Armchair Enthusiast forum. To be honest, it may well do better in an environment already well used to discussions about Grand Prix Legends, which also has a uniquely "historic" flavour.

[GTV27]

When you say "save times" do you mean saving the replay?

Umm... (thinks, how can I say this and not look like I am trying to cheat?)... how can you verify times?

Regardless, I'll have a bash - do you want times posted on those dates, or by those dates?

[steve_r]

Excuse me for being thick, but how can you verify my times if I enter this comp' on my PSone?

Anyway, I think I'll try it out.

[Fogelhund]

Save times, yes do save the replay.

Verification - if necessary, I have asked for verifiction before. Most of the very fast guys have what is called a dex driver. You put your memory card into it, and it will transfer the information onto your computer, and you can email it to others. For those who don't have that option, I would take a digital screenshot if necessary. I haven't found it necessary to ask for a replay in a bit though.

I've been running this series, and others for over three years at granturismo.com, and was in charge of their on-line racing area for most of that time. I pretty much know what any of the cars can do for this series, and over the years have learned how to spot incorrect or false submissions.

There is a core of guys who have been running this with us for some time. I've got a pretty good idea of what they can do, and afterall, this is more about fun then anything else.

[krt917]

Drat, I wish I knew about this before I went to uni, when I used to 'waste' (other people's term!) most of my time driving the GT2 cars, particularly the older ones (I notice you left out the outrageously quick Daytona Cobra - wise move!!).

I'll have to try and find my copy of GT2 from home. At the mo, I'm in to racing al the 'normal' cars (ie. non-tuned) at the first round of the non-tuned series on GT3. Might have to change direction.

Thanks for the info.

[Lee Janotta]

Well, a lot of us can't take digital screenshots either.

Can't handle the Daytona coupe? Wuss.

You also left off the GT40 and 427 Cobra. Bummer.

[GTV27]

Mine's just a PS one as well - and while I can save the replay (i think - never actually done it), I don't know how to provide an auditable result.

If the Daytona was in it, everybody would drive it. I think the cars seem very well matched and have made a short list for test drives. (can you change cars between tracks/races?)

[Lee Janotta]

Also playing on a PS1.

Has anyone taken a shot at Deep Forest (Reverse) yet for the warm-up? After 10 laps of testing, the best I've gotten is a 1:17.675 in a '67 'vette. It drifts beautifully with a big bar-soft spring setup, but it's got mid-corner understeer that I can't seem to get rid of.

I figured since most real-world test sessions are open, we might as well share testing times for the warm-up, since it doesn't count.

[GTV27]

Yeah, I've never been able to get the understeer out of the 67 vette either (well, not without making it verrrryyy taily) - but the one I normally drive has 600+ hp, so things might be easier with 300ish.

I'm going to have a go at it on the weekend and will report times on Monday.

[racer69]

Sounds fun, i'll join in

[ASCII Man]

I wish i didn't sell my copy of GT2...

[Bodysnatcher]

aah, my friend Fogel brings his classic series to my new home. At the height of the real racing season - as usual

The selection of cars he has chosen and modified all run pretty similar times - of course some are better than others on a given track. He's tried over the years to get the GT40, Cobra or Daytona equalised, but these cars are just too good. (maybe it's time for a one make series?)

Fun is the main reason for these races, but be assured Fogelhund is one of the fastest guys around in historic GT2s (beware of his Europa) and any dodgy times will stick out like a sore thumb.
Save the replay of your fastest lap, record the split times, record the maximum speed and be prepared to give him details of your setup.

Me, Im a sucker for the Elans - but I am and always will be a midfield runner.. Less than a week of testing available - hmm, maybe the GT350 should come back out.

[Lee Janotta]

1:16.413 today. Maxed out bound & rebound, and took a little camber out of the front. That delt with some of the mid-corner understeer, and the stiffer suspension makes for nicer drifts. And 4-wheel drift is the _only_ way to get this car around a track fast, especially through sector 3. I can only do it in the 24s without drifting, I dipped down into the 21s with a very nice slide.

[Fogelhund]

If anyone has any setup requests for their cars, or other hints feel free to ask.

I've tested some of the cars, there is anywhere from 4 to 8 laps each car.

1:12.430 - Datsun 240Z - Fogelhund
1:12.694 - Lotus Elan S4 - Fogelhund
1:12.826 - Toyota 2000GT - Fogelhund
1:12.881 - Shelby GT350 - Fogelhund
1:12.926 - Lancia Stratos - Fogelhund
1:12.992 - Mazda RX7 - Fogelhund
1:13.222 - Mini Cooper S - Fogelhund
1:13.315 - Lancia Integrale - Fogelhund
1:13.435 - Corvette 74' - Fogelhund

This (Deep Forest Reverse) track heavily favours handling over power. I may go back and look at the schedule and past results, to ensure that the tracks are balanced out for power. I had someone else pick the tracks at first. You are likely to see Grand Valley Reverse or Grand Valley East Reverse swopped for one of the tracks. It suits the V8's quite well, with the long straight coming out of the hairpin.

Red Rock Reverse is all about handling, and will definately stay on the sched. Will have the tracks finalized by the end of the weekend.

[Lee Janotta]

Hmm... Maybe I'd better enter a 2000GT as a second car.

I'm still running the stock spring rates on the 'vette, do you think I should beef those up a bit?

[Fogelhund]

Some hints.

If you are not right at the pace of the fastest times in testing, then pick a car that can be modified further. If you've read the rules, you'll see a clause allowing for modifications during the season. I can't think of a season where I haven't helped some cars, and penalized (mostly my own) at some point.

The hardest cars to get good times out of are, in order.

1. Lancia Stratos
2. Lotus Europa
3. Camaro
4. Corvette 67'

However, if you tame them, they can be blindingly quick.

In the V8's, do pay attention to the power curves. Red Line is not optimal in all of the cars.

You can choose to submit times for more then one car, but must use those same cars for the full schedule. I'll be submitting times for three or four cars, but usually drive most of the field, just to see how the cars can do.

[Fogelhund]

67' Vette 1:12.950 @ 155.97mph

Sector times
13.036 19.474 20.670 12.950

[Fogelhund]

Here is the entry list so far.

1. Fogelhund
2. Gil
3. psonefreak
4. woodruffj
5. Sillytron - Shelby GT350
6. Rennsport Addict
7. Green Eggs and Ham
8. Pumpkin Head
9. Gentleman Driver - 82' Corvette
10. IMSA Wally
11. Ferrari308 - Shelby GT350
12. B Campbell
13. alberik - Lancia Delta Integrale
14. jafa - 1971' Lotus Elan S4
15. D - Lancia Stratos
16. Dionysis - Camaro Z28
17. Denniskaira - Lotus Europa
18. Lee Janotta
19. gttouring
20. Vee Dub 16V/Bodysnatcher
21. GTV27
22. steve_r
23. racer69
24. ktr917
25. JuanDon
26. Bill182
27. pupik
28. skynrd

[Lee Janotta]

Hey, Fogelhund-
Traction, stability, and yaw control: Legal or banned?

[Fogelhund]

Banned

[Lee Janotta]

'kay, wanted to make sure.

The purist in me cheers, but my brains says that TC could make the Europa the weapon of choice.