A sportscars race in LM in November !!!

[Fab]

I heard this week-end that a qualificative sportscars race will happend in november at LM, on the Bugatti (yes, only the Bugatti, but to see those wonderful cars again, it'll make me hold 'till 2004 easier !)...


And another project : ACO is studying the possibility of having 55 (fifty five !!!) cars again on the grid !

As the great 60' ! Things are going on !

And for the tournament : ACO's rules and 1000 kms races, at Spa, Silverstone, Nürburgring and Monza. the euroepan season will be qualificative for LM, with the ALMS and FIA-GT winners...

What do you think ?

[pirenzo]

Sounds pretty cool

[FG1]

Are dates being quoted for November yet?

FG

[rdjones]

I think I heard the 2nd of November mentioned somewhere. I also heard that the race will start at 10 in the morning and finish at around 4pm (in darknest)

[Tim Northcutt]

I also read that Nov. 2 was the date...

I know they are announcing more details in Sept., but one question that has not been answered about the LM Tourney in subsequent years...

Will they go to different circuits (in 2005) or will the four announced for 2004 be annual calendar events???

I hope there will be a rotation system of some sort , whether it is all four changing or some of the four...

If it would be "some of the four," which ones would you keep from the 2004 list of race tracks, and why (pick two...at least it simplifies it a little)....

Which tracks in Europe would you want to be considered for future LM Tournament races and why???

Thanks!

[JAG]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I also read that Nov. 2 was the date...

I know they are announcing more details in Sept., but one question that has not been answered about the LM Tourney in subsequent years...

Will they go to different circuits (in 2005) or will the four announced for 2004 be annual calendar events???

I hope there will be a rotation system of some sort , whether it is all four changing or some of the four...

If it would be "some of the four," which ones would you keep from the 2004 list of race tracks, and why (pick two...at least it simplifies it a little)....

Which tracks in Europe would you want to be considered for future LM Tournament races and why???

Thanks!

As the press release said the ACO wanted to revive the 1000K sportscar classics, I cannot see the '1000K sporstcar classics' that have just been announced being rotated with other circuits in the future.

I would expect Spa, Monza, Nurburgring, Silverstone 1000Ks be the mainstays of the series as they are the famous Euro 1000K sportscar races. I think the ACO wants to ensure the announced events run every year and return to there former glory when they were considered unmissable, important sportscar races just as LM, Sebring have always been and PLM has grown into in recent years.

However if there is demand for an expanded schedule they may add one or two other events in the future.

Personally I doubt whether the ACO would organise more than the 4 races announced, plus LM as you have to tkae into acount the FIA GT series and the ALMS.

If the series was more than 4 rounds some FIA GT/ALMS teams who compete in the 4 race tournamnet for the championship would not be able to fit an expanded tournamant into there current FIA GT/ALMS schedule and would have to give up one or the other.

[gttouring]

PLM is okay- i love sebring- But for crying out load a 12 hours or 24 or 16 at ROAD AMERICA man it is perfect.
I hope Bugatti hosts a race.
that would be keen.
So how does all this leave the FIA GT and FIA sportscars?
And what of BelCAR and BritGT?
Are these winners qualificative (sp?) for LeMans?

[JAG]

SRO (Ratels organisation who organise FIA GT, and from 2003 FIA SCC) are involved with the ACO in the organisation of the LM Tournament. This means the LMT schedule will be scheduled to not clash with FIA GT. FIA SCC I believe will cease to exists and is effectively replaced by the LMT.

Brit GT and Belcar are national series that will not get automatic LM places.

Only LMT, ALMs and FIA GT will get automatic LM places.

[Tim Northcutt]

To gttouring:

I don't know about a 24 or 16 hrs at Road America (the mosquitoes are a big as ponies -- Pegasus, maybe -- in Wisconsin) unless "Deep Woods OFF" bug spray is the official sponsor...

But an 8 or 10 hour event there, or even a 1000 km would be AWESOME...It is my second favorite road circuit in America (with Sebring first)...yes..I like it better than the Glen...

You're right....Road America would be a MUST if the Tourney would expand its dates beyond Sebring and Petit as qualifiers for LM

To JAG:

Thanks for the insight...if I would've read the language of the announcement more carefully, I would have picked up on that...

But....

If by any chance there would be consideration of a partial rotation of any kind, they could keep two of the four circuits for the next year in 2005, then alternate them every other year with the other two....(Monza & Nurburgring in 2005, Silverstone & Spa in 2006, etc.)

They could do Brands Hatch or Donnington or any other British courses any of you would suggest as a "rotation" circuit in the years that Silverstone was not in the lineup, and maybe plug in a circuit from the Iberian peninsula (Estoril, Barcelona) within a once every three years visit...just for starters....

The rotations could be worked out so that two of these original four would be in any given year, Britain would have a race every year, and some other courses in other nations of Europe could be worked into the mix like the Iberian Idea once every three or so to give sportscar fans in many nations the chance to enjoy the major LM Tournament races in their homeland 2 or 3 times a decade...

If there are courses in Germany or Italy that you would like to see in the mix in the years that Nurburgring or Monza are not in the rotation, that could be accommodated as well by the way I did the splits above on the original four....the circuit from one of those respective countries would always be slotted in the Silverstone & Spa rotation as the third event...

The Iberian event could fall into either one once every three years, and other countries (Holland readily comes to mind, as well as other French circuits -- Magny-Cours, or Dijon) as part of the once every three rotation......

Even if the plan is to do those same four courses to revive the tradition of the 1000km's, those four circuits are excellent and there would be no objection on my part if they did exactly what is set now...

But if you remember, we had been talking about this ACO-driven Tourney idea for months, and we doubted that the FIA would buy into it....our discussions turned into reality...

Maybe a rotation of some sort could come about at some point...

If so, this is the way I'd like to see it done...

[Fulvio]

There's a big problem in the "rotation-project"... The commercial agreement.

When a promoter makes an agreement with a track for a big event, normally the two parts sign a contract based on a certain number of years. Expecially a big event like a Le Mans Tournament it will be very prestigious to held, so the four trak present in next year schedule will agree to leave the cars race on their tarmac only if ACO says it will be for a minimum of three years, in my opinion....

I talk, obviously, over my experience in the Italian market: everything with four wheels that's not F1 is not followed in our country, so having a big event like an ACO race will be a big loss of money to organize, with absolutely no money gained with the tickets.... The only way you can hope to reach the Break Even Point is to plan a three years event, to teach people what it is and making it "annual"... so you can hope that, workin well, the third year you will have created the pubblic, that will give you back the money you invested in the two years before...

At the end of the day, what I want to say? That the rotation would be wonderful, byt like many other wonderful ideas... it will remain just an idea....

[Tim Northcutt]

Points well-made, Fulvio...

I suggested that Britain get an eevent every year because of their fan base...if Italy would not be an option for the same type of rotation, then maybe the Germany track rotation would be the best route for the non Nurburgring years....

But the agreements could be long-term contracts for every other year with some insightful planning,

or the first 3-4 years could be those four tracks, then phase in the rotation system....

there are many possible options on how this could be executed....

Thanks for your input, and do keep us posted on your car and your status for Monza in a few weeks.

After you run thee, share your thoughts with us on driving that circuit in a sports prototype...I'm sure you've raced other types of cars on it already...

Thanks!

[Fab]

And don't forget the historical track of Spa ! What a race we could have next year in Belgium !

A race in Spain could be good too... What do you think, Javi ?

[Javi]

a race in apain will be wonderful, specially in Jarama (is nearest my home!). ELMS came to jarama in 2001, and the audis (who else) broke the circuit record by far. Also in the eighties were some good sportscar races here (my first sportscar race, jaguars against 962 porsches...)
anyway, government is demolishing the circuit in two years time, to build houses.... (hopefully we´ll have a new one by 2008)

[Tim Northcutt]

I started a thread on this "Rotation" thing...
LM Tourney beyond 2004....that gives more details on how I would break things down, which of the original four courses would be paired together in the every other year rotations, etc., and other options for countries, courses, etc.

If planned well, it would work very well and spread the wealth....a little while keeping these four original and famous 1000km races in the mix...just not doing them every single year...

BTW...Jarama would be great, and I took a look at France as as a third year rotation as well, so that Magny-Cours or Dijon or whatever could be an occasional LM Tourney race...they shouldn't be holding just LM each year with the fan base for sportscars there...

[Fab]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I started a thread on this "Rotation" thing...

Yes indeed : let's focus on the 'rotation' things in the 'rotation' Tim thread, and let's this one to the November's race at LM, which will be the first qualifying race for 2004 LM race... but I'm guilty on this : I miwed the things in waving Javi about the Spain's race !

[Arnage]

lets get back to this November thing. Has anyone found more information at the net (press release?) with the intention to hold this race in November? For example: does the ACO already know how many places for 2004 can be earned, etc.?

[Tim Northcutt]

A question I have:

Is this November event a One-Time race to get this started, since LM invites will be sent in November once this gets up and going, or will it be Europe's verson of Petit to close out the racing season?

Please advise....

[Fab]

It seems to be a 'one shot'... and I have NO-THING about this November race... we have to wait to have details...

[Fulvio]

What I've understood about the November race is that it's a one-shot race only, to understand if people is interested about... It's just a "number 0 event", to taste the "market" before organizing next year championship....
The important thing to know is that this race will give 12 [yes, I said twelve!] places for next year Le Mans 24h race...
I don't know how these places will be filled, but cars that gain this "wild card" are sure to be IN, also if they fail the pre-qualifyng test!
That means that the grid will be surely full-filled

Durango told me today that we will be there...

[Fab]

Originally posted by Fulvio
The important thing to know is that this race will give 12 [yes, I said twelve!] places for next year Le Mans 24h race...
I don't know how these places will be filled...

Easy : four categories (LMP 900, LMP 675, GTS and GT), so three best cars for each = 12 !

This event should be really great with so much to win for 2004 race !

BTW, Fulvia, will you be there personnaly ? any chance to see you in the car ?

[Chofar]

Lister wants to get a revenge in november (the car might be rebuilt at that date)

[917Addicted]

Hay Fab, correct me if I'm wrong:

Wasn't there a race at he LM-Bugatti for GTs and Sportscars some years ago?? Something called Coupe d'Autonne (spelling again )?

[Tim Northcutt]

Concerning the November race & the automatic berths for LM 2004:

When the Tourney concept was originally announced, the ACO indicated that invitations for 2004 and beyond would go out in November....

I believe that the 12 from this race, plus the four class winners from the end of this current ALMS season, plus the four class winners at LM 2003 and any FIA GT season champs (provided their cars meet ACO specs) will get in automatically for next year only...then it will switch to the class winners of the Tournament events next year to replace the LM Bugatti podium winners used to fill the 2004 field.

The 2004 Tourney class winners at the various events will become part of the automatic invite list that will be announced in November 2004 for the LM 2005 field...

I imagine that whoever wins their class at LM in a given year will get an automatic to come back the next year...

Question:

Will Sebring and PLM figure into this at all at some point???

Or will they just continue to take the ALMS Season winners by class???

Please advise....

[Tim Northcutt]

I just re-read the announcement and the invites for 2004 will be the 12 from LM Bugatti, plus 8 ALMS season points cars (top two in each class) and four FIA-GT, if they meet ACO regs....

I'm not at all sure about how they will do next year's automatic berths, because the four class winners at the Tourney events, plus LM class winners makes 20....they can't do class winners at Sebring and Petit because that would make 28...and if they do ALMS season winners, it would be 24, but Sebring and Petit would not be qualifiiers...

I thought that at some point, those two races were included as qualifiers...is that correct, or not????

[courage]

Hey fulvio, how many durangos at LM in november? One or two? It would be cool to see you in...