End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore

[Umai Naa]

We're only 3 weeks in, mind you

[ForumNick]

EXACTLY !!!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Gaz170

That's the way I feel about my Kia. Nice car, but no emotion to it. Just a means to get to and from the office. The wife's Honda Odessy is just a glamorous bus for family trips.

Every Honda has the spirit of "Without racing, there is no Honda". However they also have the ideas of cars and bikes being "fit for purpose" and optimized for the relevant usage cases. Sometimes that means the products are boring (be they cars or bikes) as they give buyers what they need rather what they want (buyers being most interested in the most powerful *spec sheet* in the world springs to mind).

Honda are wise enough to know that people don't want steering feedback or sporty handling in their MPV. Those are reserved for cars like the Civic Type R, S660, S2000 and NSX where the sportiness is laid on heavily -- "If you're gonna do it, do it properly."

Conversely other, especially European brands, want to grace every vehicle with sports suspension and a rorty exhaust for that "European ride and handling", regardless of whether it is appropriate for the vehicle's intended buyer and usage........

[V8 Fireworks]

Jeremy Clarkson loved the mighty Magna (or Sigma as in the UK) and that counts for a lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCPSnmL0ko4 One almost gets the impression Clarkson is being paid handsomely to channel his inner James May about the technical excellence of the Mitsubishi in some kind of informercial -- surely not, right?

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The 380 was nicely balanced, strong engine, sweet gearshift, great ride for a 10 year old car. Stopped, steered & went like a brand new one. My friend bought it on the spot, even if it was an odd factory gold colour. With a dealer service history.

Something died the day Mitsubishi stopped building the 380...

Sorry but I will take the Honda Legend "super handling" (torque vectoring) all-wheel-drive over the 380. I just think it's a better car... for one thing the inside and outside look much better.

Mitsubishi are certainly the kings of torque vectoring with their mighty active yaw control of Evo, Galant and GTO fame though. All hail Mitsubishi.

These are family cars for family adventures. A connection with a brand, whichever one it was, that told us they were here, for us, to help create our crazy childhoods.

That puts me in mind of the lovely low slung stance of the late 80's Honda Accord. Cars aren't low and slinky like this anymore.

[mountainstar]

Now that it's all over and in the history books, it is very sad to see the end of the distinct Australian car industry and the eventual end in a year or two of what we knew as V8 Supercars. But when the negative happens, the smart learn from it and it's a multi faceted demise of an industry. A government with noncompetitive tax rates and bureaucratic induced costs(like electricity), industrial unions who failed to flex with the market and a product that failed to adjust quickly enough to changing consumer demand all led to the end.

[GTRMagic]

Can we outsource electricity to China/Thailand/Japan/Korea/USA/South Africa/Poland/Germany/Great Britain et al too?

[Mixer]

Electricity costs are am issue for consumers but not so much for big industry really

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[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Electricity costs are am issue for consumers but not so much for big industry really

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But if we all go to electric cars, we will need all the coal in Aust to power the stations to plug in the electric wonders or have diesel hybrids .
Maybe I should buy an FG or VF and cover it in solar cels and drive them around for another twenty years.

Or buy some European designed green friendly, noddy box to zip around the city

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Can we outsource electricity to China/Thailand/Japan/Korea/USA/South Africa/Poland/Germany/Great Britain et al too?

You might have to do something if Australia keeps going "green".

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Electricity costs are am issue for consumers but not so much for big industry really

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You just might be surprised. The number of businesses switching from electricity because of volatile energy prices onto more complex platforms like LNG or even LPG is surprising.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

You just might be surprised. The number of businesses switching from electricity because of volatile energy prices onto more complex platforms like LNG or even LPG is surprising.

A photovoltaic installation should generate more than enough daytime electricity for regular office businesses. Very economic.

Industry, aluminium smelter etc is of course more of a pickle...

[Mixer]

https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...0?ffref=theage

Tax department may crack down on the loophole with dual-cab utes and FBT, which have numbered in the hundreds of thousands per year at the expense of big cars like the Commodore and Falcon, and if they had reacted a little bit quicker I wonder if things might have been a little different for Ford & Holden.

Of course the car manufacturers have loved this loophope because those vehicles are big and dumb and they make good money off it, and all of them have been on the teat.

I do think it is about time the ATO acted, stupid tax rules have been pushing people into vehicles that are bigger, less safe, and far less efficient than they would otherwise be buying.

[Forda]

It's not just the Australian industry affected - sales of sedans have been diminishing rapidly across the globe.

If sedans end up constituting only a tiny/rare/niche segment of vehicle sales, then the elephant in the room must be "what is the future of touring cars"?

[Umai Naa]

It's hard to compare to elsewhere in the world. We've always forged our own path in terms of touring car racing for the most part, but adopted other rulesets when it suited.

The problem we now have, is whilst everyone wants V8s, they also want cars that are RWD and V8-powered, and Ford Vs Holden. That may still be sustainable for the next couple of years at best, but at some point, it'll start to unravel when people and sponsors fall into that mindset of "Why are we racing cars that are no longer sold?" or "We want current/relatable cars to carry our branding". Are the NZV8s having this issue yet? They're still using VEIIs and FGs, and the previous-gen Camry.

The planning for the next phase of touring car racing in this country needs to be already underway. The catagory should also be 100% transparent to the fanbase on where they're heading with it.

[simonracer]

The NZV8's haven't had more than 10 cars show up for their last two rounds between their two classes, so I think their cars being outdated is the least of their problems.

[Umai Naa]

That bad, huh?

[Mixer]

The internal politics is poison over there

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[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Forda

If sedans end up constituting only a tiny/rare/niche segment of vehicle sales, then the elephant in the room must be "what is the future of touring cars"?

Why not run coupes?

The legacy of Skylines (DR30-R32), BMWs (635i, M3), Supra, RX7, Starion, Falcon hardtop etc in the class suggests coupes are considered more than acceptable for touring car racing.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

The problem we now have, is whilst everyone wants V8s, they also want cars that are RWD and V8-powered, and Ford Vs Holden.

Says who!?

What's wrong with Mercdes vs BMW (vs Audi vs Lexus), given that it is Mercedes and BMW and co who are actually selling V8 (sometimes plus twin-turbo to boot!) sedans?

Why should Holden --without a suitable vehicle -- be allowed to compete and thus discourage prestige premium marques, who do not want to race against value-priced marques?

[V8 Fireworks]

V8 Supercars has a horrible lack of foresight.

It was clear already in 2007: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98615 that Falcon vs Commodore only was an unacceptable format...

[Umai Naa]

The great unwashed, want something that is unsustainable.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

like LNG or even LPG is surprising.

And we sell most of that overseas for less than we pay for it as well!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by sizzle

And we sell most of that overseas for less than we pay for it as well!

Most of the volume of LPG used for domestic Australian consumption is actually imported, coming from the US.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Most of the volume of LPG used for domestic Australian consumption is actually imported, coming from the US.

We have one gas plant in Darwin which exports all to Asia and another plant much larger coming on line to do the same.
Our governments sell the lot off for a pittance.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Why not run coupes?

The legacy of Skylines (DR30-R32), BMWs (635i, M3), Supra, RX7, Starion, Falcon hardtop etc in the class suggests coupes are considered more than acceptable for touring car racing.

That might work, if there's some resemblance or direct lineage to the dual-cab ute or SUV Joe Public or a potential race fan might have parked in their driveway.

The seismic shift in the public's vehicle buying preferences towards these SUV-type vehicles will otherwise surely mean the end of racing anything equivalent to their road vehicles out on the track.

Unless we're set to see SUV's, etc lumbering and rolling around Bathurst, etc as part of our 'premier series' in the future?