British F3 Silly Season 2012

[CATMAN]

The bottom line is that F3 is a big business and it's rather worrying to have talk of people in F3 giving out confidential info, sound like complete bull. What's confidential tends to stay that way, what is put out is more spin than Blair ever dreampt of. With the money and budgets it takes to run a F3 team they all play their cards close to their chests
It's just not the way F3 or higher ends of Motorsport work. F3 just came close to outing SRO due to disatisfaction within the teams but somebody blundered or was it a few strings pulled to suit a minority interest?
The future of F3 lies with it being fast fair and competitive, large teams and squabbling between drivers or teams is not healthy for the future of F3.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by strider

Dealing with the last paragraph first, it doesn't bother me in the least and there's no need to apologise. I expect it and worry about it not one iota.

The first is more important. The guy has popped up out of the woodwork despite having been a member since 1998. Yes, he appears to be well informed, but only about one particular team and it's slightly malicious, gossipy stuff, so of course you're interested. We shall only know in due course whether he's truly well-informed or just shooting his mouth off to impress people.

I know most of the British F3 teams and have done for years. They tell me all sorts of things, but usually it's in confidence and I'm certainly not to going to post it on here just to impress people. The stories will come out when the time is right. I might drop a hint here or there, but that's all.

Sorry to disappoint you, but the friendship and trust of the teams is more important to me than trying to make myself look good to you guys.

With all due respect Strider, I'd rather read CATMAN's gossip and make my own mind up than wait until you feel "the time is right" for us less well connected members to know whatever it is you think we should know.

This is meant to be a discussion forum not a avenue for you to deposit whatever PR your pals in the teams tell you to feed us.

And as far as I can tell it's all been 100% on topic.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

With all due respect Strider, I'd rather read CATMAN's gossip and make my own mind up than wait until you feel "the time is right" for us less well connected members to know whatever it is you think we should know.

This is meant to be a discussion forum not a avenue for you to deposit whatever PR your pals in the teams tell you to feed us.

And as far as I can tell it's all been 100% on topic.

That's fine. You read what you prefer.

As an example of what I meant if a team tells me they've done a deal with a driver, but that the sponsor wants to keep it under wraps for the time being I'll respect that.

[CATMAN]

That's quite funny. It was recently limited 'knowledge' that one particular driver had DONE his Macau drive deal with his regular team whilst his Manager was actually still doing the rounds trying to get him a Macau drive elsewhere.
If a team says they have signed a driver but can't make it public, that normally means they are still hoping to sign them or persuade someone else to get in quick
You don't wear those strange MTB trainers by any chance do you Strider ?

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by CATMAN

You don't wear those strange MTB trainers by any chance do you Strider ?

LOL!

[CATMAN]

Be sure to get up early for your download or run to the newsagents for this weeks Autosport read all you F3 followers
It could be double page spread F3 GOLD

[CATMAN]

The rumour mill has Fortecs two 2011 British drivers in a southernly F3 direction for 2012. Harry Tincknell going VW and Will Buller sticking with Mercedes. Money being the final decider

[strider]

Carlin will only be running five cars in 2012, but for whom is the question.

[CATMAN]

I'd 'guess' that Tinknell is in one of them.

[EastonNeston]

Interestingly, at the Brands BTCC weekend Scott Pye was with a couple of members of the Carlin F3 team.

It may all be a coincidence of course!

[CATMAN]

Pye's gilrfriend spent a while working at Carlin and her Carlin bolter brother is friends with Pye. Their pop is McLaren's former test team manager Indy Lal who has Magnussen in their Mclaren driver program and spent a good amount of time with Carlin guiding and keeping an eye on Kevin.
Pye has exclusive Mercedes backing and visited Mercedes on Monday and seemed happy, his chances of driving for Carlin probably stand at about -100. Also Carlin are unlikely to want him of need him, he's a kind of foot in mouth driver I've heard. It woudn't be smart to abandon Mercedes and this years performance and behaviour is unlikely to see him get a better deal I would assume.
Pye also belongs to Roland Dane camp, I can't see a Carlin link coming from that angle either.

[CATMAN]

Autosport
Meaow Meaow, journo colleagues pretty on the mark there

[CATMAN]

One for Strider. Wots your take or know on this one?
News that the use of wind tunnel for developing or setting up F3 cars will be strictly outlawed and policed after behind the scenes manoeuvres. In a further bid for levelling the playing field & cost control further to the new chassis being ratified. Teams want a fair chance for all with no undue advantage.
Could be good for all after the five car smack, a compromise that Swallow should accept surely?

[strider]

I'm staying out of this. You claim to have so many sources and know everything so I'm sure one of them will come up with the answer.

[davyboy]

From what CATMAN's said and the content of this week's Autosport, all's not well in BF3.

[strider]

Even so, I'd wait a while before you write the obituary. That article was finest News of the World quality.

[CATMAN]

Who claimed what Strider?
Were your not telling how the teams tell you their inner thoughts, drivers inside leg stats and closest secrets that you sleep on as the teams trusted F3 senex.
Peak of Carlin cap being pulled down on this one is it

Agree about NOTW! Swallow could well be talking dangly bits NOTW style. Would love to see Swallow blow Capsicum money taking legal recourse over restriction of free market trade. FOTA teams arguing restriction of fair open competition. Capiscum run in four formulae plus there are plenty of other's they could trade in as well rather than screwing up other F3 teams trade and then there's their wind tunnel biz and others motor sport sidelines.
Ratel's 33% cut in turnover line sucks. Carlin is not an F3 one trick pony it's a multi team operation so why not run 6 cars in WSR, GP2 or GP3? Might that be something to do with it being unacceptable?
If Carlin Swallow Capsicum are such a clean cut trading outfit just give a clear honest answer on "rescued Trevor Carlin's team from administration in 2009" Numerous Carlin insiders, staff told a different story of Carlin or parts of it being bought from administrators. Were Carlin's debts or director personal guarantees all settled? Open and honest replies only please

Wikipedia "Carlin,[1] formerly Carlin Motorsport" Therein lies the rub, before anyone gets upset. Since Capsicum took over somebody forgot the "motorSPORT"

[strider]

Sorry, but you've just become a joke now so there's no wonder you spend so much time ROFL.

I've never worn a Carlin cap in my life. One of my earlier thoughts was that Carlin (sic) could run 4 cars in the International Class and a couple in the National Class, but it was rightly pointed out to me that they would still be in trouble for attracting the best National Class drivers as well.

Strange, isn't it, how despite being such a rubbish outfit in your eyes they still attract the best drivers. They must be doing something right.

[CATMAN]

That's a little low Strider. The laugh is on you is it not.
Where's Carlin been called a rubbish outfit by me or anyone else?
They win races so how can they be rubbish? Question's arise about how healthy a six car team is for the drivers within that team and how healthy it is for Formula 3 and motorSPORT. Other formulae clearly consider multi car teams unhealthy for competition. It would give you more credibility if you answered those points if you are really that close to F3 or the whole forum will be .
If it's not a Carlin cap you pull down, SRO or FOTA it has to be so not a lot a lot of difference the other teams say.
Large money changes hands in F3. Kindly remember it is still motorSPORT. Walking over fellow teams, competitors and creditors is and has never been excused by winning trophies and championships.
My flight's leaving shortly, just give the forum some real answers and insight Strider

[Flavio Galtieri]

Blimey!

Probably the most interesting thread on the single seater forum!

I think there is something wrong with any formula when you really have to place a driver in a certain team to be sure of winning a championship. F3's not the only one is it?

Obviously a good team will naturally attract the best funded drivers and often the fastest drivers but it can't be right for them to be allowed to run three times or even twice the number of cars as any other team (in any one class that is) because that does detract from the "sporting" nature of the challenge.

But that's not a sensible business plan I suppose.....

[chunterer]

COME ON EVERYONE - BEHAVE PLEASE!!!!

LAST WARNING.....

Back to thread, Flavio agree with what you say but then F3 has always had lenghty periods where one team/engineer combo had a distinct advantage and drivers would fall over themsevles to get that plum drive.

It was West Surrey for yonks, then PSR (Bowman sneaked in there for a while, then I guess there was Promatecme and Manor recently, the Doc had some glory for a couple of years and now it's Carlin?

The difference now is the number of cars as you say. Even in the previous dominant eras WSR and Bowman only ever ran A maximum 3 cars, maybe a 4th ocassionally?

[strider]

Originally Posted by CATMAN

That's a little low Strider. The laugh is on you is it not.
Where's Carlin been called a rubbish outfit by me or anyone else?
They win races so how can they be rubbish? Question's arise about how healthy a six car team is for the drivers within that team and how healthy it is for Formula 3 and motorSPORT. Other formulae clearly consider multi car teams unhealthy for competition. It would give you more credibility if you answered those points if you are really that close to F3 or the whole forum will be .
If it's not a Carlin cap you pull down, SRO or FOTA it has to be so not a lot a lot of difference the other teams say.
Large money changes hands in F3. Kindly remember it is still motorSPORT. Walking over fellow teams, competitors and creditors is and has never been excused by winning trophies and championships.
My flight's leaving shortly, just give the forum some real answers and insight Strider

Sorry, I'm not rising to the bait except to say that I don't hold any position within either SRO or FOTA nor any specific team. I have been posting about F3 on here for long enough for people to decide whether or I have any credibility. If they think not, that's fine. I shall still be posting as I think appropriate. Have a safe flight.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I think there is something wrong with any formula when you really have to place a driver in a certain team to be sure of winning a championship. F3's not the only one is it?

Obviously a good team will naturally attract the best funded drivers and often the fastest drivers but it can't be right for them to be allowed to run three times or even twice the number of cars as any other team (in any one class that is) because that does detract from the "sporting" nature of the challenge.

But that's not a sensible business plan I suppose.....

I'm happy to give some background information, but it won't be as spicy as you obviously prefer.

Here's a link to all the British F3 champions. http://www.formula3.co/heritage You have to scroll down below the photo of Ayrton Senna. Unfortunately it doesn't name the teams.

What Chunterer said is basically correct. There was a West Surrey period for several years. Bowman only won in 1989, but I think I'm right in saying that they ran five cars, three in the main class and two in what was then Class B. As Steve Hollman, who owned Bowman with his brother, is Trevor Carlin's uncle, maybe that's where the idea came from. Steve was involved with Carlin for many years, although I haven't seen him this season. Maybe he doesn't come to the race meetings.

Paul Stewart Racing had a terrific run from 1992 to 1998, then Manor Motorsport came in as F3 rookies but with a great record in FRenault and won two titles on the trot with Marc Hynes and Antonio Pizzonia.

Carlin also joined in 1999 but didn't win until 2001, when Takuma Sato took the honours. For a while they only won in alternate years and missed out completely in 2006 and 2007, but since then they have won every year.

They had a 1-2-3 in 2008, when they were running just four cars, so running six doesn't make a big difference. This year they had another 1-2-3, then 5-6 and 9. At the end of the day it comes down to drivers. The top two had 7 wins apiece, which suggests they were the fastest and best. Five other drivers had race wins, seven if you include guest drivers.

Sometimes drivers can by psyched into thinking that they can only win in a VW-powered Carlin car, but it's simply not true. Fortec and Double R are very good Mercedes-powered teams.

I could go on but this post is long enough already.

[davyboy]

In the past a plum seat in a good team was exactly that, primarily because teams ran just two cars. Demand would outstrip supply. Carlin decided to expand to meet the demand and ended up last year running 6 cars. It's not unreasonable to believe that most well heeled drivers would want a Carlin seat, be that based on hype or fact. It follows therefore that, unchecked, Carlin could potentially have continued to expand - this year 8 cars, next year 10 cars, then 12 the year after and so on. It's not inconceivable to believe that eventually they would have a monopoly and the other teams would cease to exist. In order to protect their own viability, the other teams want Carlin limited to a lower [than 6] number of cars next year than this.

o Should all teams be limited to fielding just 2 cars ? Would that improve the racing or the health of the series ?
o Should Carlin [or anyone else] be allowed to run as many cars as they like ? Would/is that damaging the series ?
o Should BF3 go 'communist' like F2 and have the entire series run by one outfit ?

Forget about recessions or economic crises. These are the important questions of our time

[bella]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I think there is something wrong with any formula when you really have to place a driver in a certain team to be sure of winning a championship. F3's not the only one is it?

apart from the total false start that is "formula 2", are there any where you really can win from a team who occupied the last few rows of the grid the previous season? honest question.