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17 Feb 2004, 15:16 (Ref:877059) | #76 | ||
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Herbert Nurburging 1999. As everybody else was falling off the track he made an inspired tyre choice and walked away from everybody to give Stewart GP its only win
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17 Feb 2004, 16:46 (Ref:877169) | #77 | ||
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Execellent thread, that brought back many good memories.
It is wonderful to see so many Bellof fans out there! |
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17 Feb 2004, 18:34 (Ref:877312) | #78 | ||
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On course Amon at Clermont Ferrand in '72, but to my mind a near-great if not a great, but in the smae race, Helmut Marko moving up in an uncompetitive BRM into the top six in the early going before that horrid incident that cost him his eye.
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17 Feb 2004, 20:56 (Ref:877546) | #79 | ||
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Eddie Irvine, Suzuka 1997 or 1998 (cant rememeber which). drove round the outside of Hakkinen and Schuey on the opening lap through the Esses (Hakkinen was still trying to work out how he did it that night!) Finally passed Villenueve into the chicane at the end of the lap and vanished into the distance!
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17 Feb 2004, 21:23 (Ref:877584) | #80 | ||
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It was 1997
That was a good drive, but I was never quite sure how quick he actually was because JV was doing his 'hold up the pack to try and catch the Ferraris out' bit whilst he was under protest. Nevertheless, some good moves by Eddie. I bet he enjoyed those first few laps! |
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18 Feb 2004, 22:59 (Ref:878793) | #81 | ||
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some of my favourites
Jeam Alesi Canada 1995 Gerhard Berger Germany 1997 Rubens Barrichello Germany 2000 |
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18 Feb 2004, 23:28 (Ref:878828) | #82 | |
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Alesi in Canada 1995 was not a great drive by Alesi.
It was a good one, but he had better drives elsewhere which went unrewarded. |
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19 Feb 2004, 07:09 (Ref:879041) | #83 | ||
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Hill Hungary 97
Alesi Canada 95 Firman Spain 03 Webber France 02 McNish Italy 02 Trulli Europe 99 Panis Brazil 01 Fisichella Brazil 03 |
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19 Feb 2004, 10:33 (Ref:879171) | #84 | ||
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Quote:
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
19 Feb 2004, 10:48 (Ref:879182) | #85 | |
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A slightly different spin on the thread - what about the people who have won Grand Prix in genuinely "ordinary" machinery compared to the opposition?
Richie Ginther (Honda) Mexico 1965 Pedro Rodriguez (Cooper) Kyalami 67 JP Beltoise (BRM) Monaco 72 Vittorio Brambilla (March) Austria 75 Alan Jones (Shadow) Austria 77 Elio de Angelis (Lotus) Austria 82 Michele Alboreto (Tyrrell) Detroit 83 gerhard Berger (Benetton) Mexico 86 Alessandro Nannini (Benetton) Suzuka 89 Olivier Panis (Ligier) Monaco 96 Damon Hill (Jordon) Spa 98 Johnny Herbert (Stewart) Euro 99 Giancarlo Fisichella (Jordan) Brazil 03 How about those? |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
19 Feb 2004, 13:57 (Ref:879373) | #86 | ||
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Yes, that could be a good way of extending the thread. Presumably that would also include great drives by the greats when they had mediocre equipment (though that can get difficult to define!). In which case I would add these to your list deeks:
-Moss (Cooper) - 1958 Argentine GP -Peterson (Lotus) - Either of his wins in 1974 (the 72 was ANCIENT by then) -Villeneuve, G - 1981 Monaco and Spanish GPs -Schumacher - 1996 Spanish, Italian and Belgian GPs - Am still convinced that car was a dog. I'm sure there are others. A few of Senna's and Prost's might get on their too, though it is difficult to know exactly how 'ordinary' a car has to be to qualify for the list! |
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19 Feb 2004, 14:15 (Ref:879393) | #87 | ||
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Of those lists, only a few were really imrpessive - far more depended on luck and other drivers having reliability problems. Others were in cars which were fast but unreliable, such as Berger Mexico 86 and de Angelis Austria 82. Jones' win at Austria stands out as a great showing,a dn we can't overlook that Fisichella qualified 8th in Brazil in (at best) the 8th-best car.
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19 Feb 2004, 14:19 (Ref:879397) | #88 | ||
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I think that's true; luck and circumstances do have a lot to do with it. However, I think that is always likely to be the case with cars that are really poor! Otherwise, we'd be worried about the quality of the rest of the drivers!
Jones' drive at Austria was a great one, but remember that that Shadow proved capable of top 6 finishes in the latter part of the season so probably wasn't as bad as we might think. |
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19 Feb 2004, 21:00 (Ref:879753) | #89 | ||
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It was at this time that people realised how good Jones was...Ferrari actually signed him up for the next year and reneged on the contract when they were able to get Villeneuve (North American market). Williams snapped him up and the rest is history. I'd disagree slightly about Peterson 74 - the car was still a relative front-runner until the end of the year (the Monza drive was a beauty). Villeneuve in Monaco was a good one because he qualified on the front row and drove very well (and carefully, for a change) in a basically bad handling car. The Spanish was just the horsepower on the straights and hold-up-the-freight-train race from memory. The Schumacher 96 is interesting...I actually agree wholeheartedly - that car was the 5th or 4th best car at best. Does go to show how good the guy is. Irvine was a pretty good driver and he hardly got a point in it. |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
19 Feb 2004, 21:04 (Ref:879761) | #90 | ||
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19 Feb 2004, 21:26 (Ref:879804) | #91 | |||
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19 Feb 2004, 21:29 (Ref:879811) | #92 | |
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But ultimately didn't show it, although there were glimpses.
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19 Feb 2004, 21:55 (Ref:879838) | #93 | ||
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Incidentally, Patrick Head also said later that when they signed Jones, they also thought he would be a good solid driver who would bring it home in 5th or 6th if the car was good enough but soon realised that he was going to win a lot of races if they could produce a competitive car. Head still rates him as good as any driver that Williams have had - which is a fairly big wrap considering the drivers that have had their bum in a Williams. |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
20 Feb 2004, 19:47 (Ref:880753) | #94 | ||
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Not saying it was not a good drive, but wasnt Schumacher the only driver to adopt a full wet set-up for the 1996 Spanish GP? (krt917/deeks6)
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20 Feb 2004, 19:53 (Ref:880757) | #95 | |||
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23 Feb 2004, 20:34 (Ref:883216) | #96 | ||
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Re: good/great drivers winning races in mediocre cars
Keke Rosberg in the unwieldy Williams-Honda in Dallas in 1984.
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