Just For The Record...

[Tim Northcutt]

In another thread we were discussing the costs of racing in each series...

on the site www.tsn.ca there is an interview with Mr. kalkhoven of OWRS about why the merger isn't necessary....

in the costs area for teams, this is what the article said:

"Kalkhoven said team operating cuts have been cut 30 to 35 per cent since the Open Wheel Racing Series partnership took over Champ Car, mainly through restricting technology upgrades and number of available engines and chassis.


More savings are available if the life of the Ford racing engines can be extended past the current 1,200 miles.

It now costs around $11 million US to run a two-car team for the 16-race season, said Kalkhoven.

Griffin said the average two-car IRL team spends about $8 million, thanks to limits on car testing and engine and tire supplies."


So with 30-35% cost reductions this year, it still costs (for an average team) about $3 million less to run in the IRl than it does in OWRS....

I thought many had told us that the iRL would "implode" because the costs were so high compared to OWRS????

Now you know the real story...from each Series....


Intersting, isn't it????

[Kicking-back]

Yes.

Depends how much money is coming in transparently though, and how much is "secret" from the manufacturers.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Yes.

Depends how much money is coming in transparently though, and how much is "secret" from the manufacturers.

I can tell you from people that I know in the IRL that this average is about right.....

In fact, there are teams in 2003 that ran on half of that....

The chassis are cheaper (new vs. new), the engines are about the same in cost or a little less in the IRL, and the overall cost of doing business adds up to that average figure....

Any subsidies from Toyota or Honda are no different than the "sweetheart" deal the OWRS inherited from CART....

That too is all about doing business....

[jhansen]

I would also like to know if these are the ACTUAL costs for running a two car team in each series. The real picture could be much different (not including any subsidies, or incentives). And there are smoke and mirrors on both sides. However, after knowing the actual costs, I think it is then logical to see what incentives are available if any.

But we probably will never know the true costs. Just like we will never know the true financial situation for each series.

Note: check your PMs Tim.

[GP Racer]

Yes, costs may have risen in the IRL, but that's the price of success. Top teams now want to be a part of it, and with top teams come rising costs. It happens in all series. But as you point out Tim, the costs are still manageable.

Just another bogus argument to knock this series down again.

[jhansen]

I posted a question in the other thread in response to a well thought out point that was made by another forum member. Which series offers more bang for the buck so to speak? Or in more specific terms, return on and of the investment. Ulitmately, the cost can be obsorbed if the chance for return on investment is there. This is the bottom line so to speak.

[Kicking-back]

If you want bang for the buck in US racing, NASCAR

[jhansen]

You speak the truth Kicking-back...unfortunately.

[rustyfan]

NASCAR is well on its way on messing up their act though. While their fanbase obviously remains very big, I know lots of stock car fans - including some real hardcore ones - that are getting sick and tired of all the **** going on in NASCAR right now.

This would include myself as well. Before this year I didn't miss a race, but now I hardly bother watching them.

[Down F0rce]

I heard that there was some rule changes in NASCAR that upset a lot of fans.

A good chance for some clever marketing I think. Shame the curent IRL TV ads are during the races themselves....

[rustyfan]

Actually there aren't a lot of rule changes that have been made recently - however, dropping the great Rockingham track completely and adding another snoozer-race at Fontana, killing off the Southern 500 as well as making a LOT of questionable rulings during races are just some of the stuff going on.

On the topic of questionable rulings, it all started, really, when they killed off the racing back to the line during cautions, because rather than making it easy, going back to the standings of the last completed green-flag lap like many short-tracks do, they have insisted on setting the field by the exact moment the caution comes out, and that has messed things up a LOT (and often).

The race at Dover, for example, saw a caution for debris or a spin (can't remember exactly) take 26-or-so *******' laps while they tried to get their scoring straight

Can you tell NASCAR's antics this year have become a pet peeve of mine?

[Down F0rce]

Looks like open wheel racing might not have to try so hard to beat NASCAR then, if it's going to stumble by itself.

[Kicking-back]

Indeed, but we want IndyCar and/or ChampCar to rise in popularity and overtake NASCAR, rather than "win" by seeing it fall back to the pack.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by jhansen
I would also like to know if these are the ACTUAL costs for running a two car team in each series. The real picture could be much different (not including any subsidies, or incentives). And there are smoke and mirrors on both sides. However, after knowing the actual costs, I think it is then logical to see what incentives are available if any.

But we probably will never know the true costs. Just like we will never know the true financial situation for each series.

Note: check your PMs Tim.

I responded to your PM, jhansen...hope that helps you know more about it...

From the people I've talked to who are here in Indy and in racing, these numbers are pretty much ACTUALS....

Unless you have Cheever's Chassis budget for this year...which has moved him up into the "above average" category....

Personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money for a two-car team if I were in the position to go racing....

Because I coudl run an LMP1 or LMP2 prototype program in the ALMS (2 cars) for less than half of that amount....and I would be competitive...

I ran the costs on it...