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15 Apr 2013, 01:43 (Ref:3234322)
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#151 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,737
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Knowlesy, you made an interesting comment about the second seat being wasted for some teams in another thread.
I can't help but feel that by virtue of the tires/rules the second seat is being wasted by all the q3 teams. Merc took the unusual step of stacking their stop and Ferrari should have done the same. You do your best in Q3 and start on the used softs with a full fuel load and when the tires drop of suddenly after six laps taking the extra lap, as Massa did, and your race gets immediately compromised. |
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15 Apr 2013, 09:58 (Ref:3234485)
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#152 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Well indeed. Although the problem Ferrari had was that Massa was right behind Alonso, so perhaps the net loss of time between staying out a lap/stacking was no different. Or maybe they just weren't clever enough to do so, it is unusual under racing conditions after all.
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15 Apr 2013, 16:02 (Ref:3234721)
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#153 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 813
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Whilst I appreciate what Pirelli have been tasked to do as per ensuring a multi pit stop race, I can't see how under these terms it's in their interest to be in F1. It certainly doesn't help persuade me to buy Pirelli tyres next time I need to change them, because rightly or wrongly the perception this F1 situation gives is that Pirelli tyres aren't durable.
Now I like most others on this forum know this is the not the case, that actually Pirelli tyres aren't any worse than most other brands out there. But as a promotional campaign targeting the wider public who need replacement tyres, I can't see how it's of any benefit to their brand whatsoever. |
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15 Apr 2013, 21:25 (Ref:3234891)
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#154 | ||
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Retired
20KPINAL
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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Quote:
Ironically, Pirelli have also been asked by the FIA to supply a much more durable tyre for rookies to use in Friday practice sessions from the Spanish GP onwards. |
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15 Apr 2013, 21:32 (Ref:3234896)
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#155 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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You really do dine out on that one GP Michelin got it wrong don't you?
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15 Apr 2013, 22:02 (Ref:3234911)
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#156 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,722
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Pirelli and teams please wait til after Borecelona to bring longer lasting rubber. That race needs the current tyres to spice up one of the dullest rounds in the calendar!
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__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
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16 Apr 2013, 01:04 (Ref:3234984)
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#157 | |||
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Retired
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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16 Apr 2013, 01:10 (Ref:3234989)
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#158 | ||
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Retired
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Posts: 22,897
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16 Apr 2013, 01:10 (Ref:3234990)
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#159 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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Curiously, while Bridgestone advertised constantly that they supplied tyres to F1, I have not seen a single advert here in the States from Michelin noting that they are now the official supplier.
Probably not a bad idea... |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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16 Apr 2013, 09:24 (Ref:3235167)
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#160 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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I don't think that is the reason we have no tyre war though. I think it is more to do with the reduction in testing. It is also a convenient method of controlling corner speeds.
If they jacked off a tyre war because of one race I would be saddened as it is incredibly knee-jerk and stupid. Michelin got it wrong, it happens. Heck, Goodyear got it badly wrong at Indy in NASCAR 2008, ruining a race just as badly as Michelin did, but they get along fine. |
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16 Apr 2013, 09:44 (Ref:3235184)
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#161 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,165
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From what I remember of the 2005 Indy fiasco, the track had been re-surfaced earlier in the year, and from Firestone's connection with Bridgestone, they were aware of this and brought the required changed tyre, however Michelin did not have this information and was working off the 2004 data.
Off topic slightly, but I would like to see a rear tyre with a wider slip angle. If they can make tyres that fall apart, then i'm sure they could make a tyre with a lower slip drop off. |
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16 Apr 2013, 09:59 (Ref:3235195)
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#162 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Yeah, the surface had just been diamond cut which made the track a hell of a lot grippier.
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16 Apr 2013, 10:57 (Ref:3235224)
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#163 | |
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Retired
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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The biggest reason for the tyre failures were the 2005 regulations, which didn't allow tyres to be changed during the race. It also doesn't explain why the other tyres flown in that were supposed to be of stronger construction were also unsuitable. Why didn't Michelin bring those tyres in the first place? And just how unsuitable for racing were the original tyres that failed?
But it's also true that the FIA were not on good terms with the Michelin because of the previous Michelin tyre fiasco of 2003. Or was it the Bridgestone tyre fiasco? At any rate it caused a lot of fuss for all of the wrong reasons. At least we can say some things about the current tyre situation and that is that the tyres are safe (they won't fail at high speeds) and are not breaking any regulations (not regulated by anything other than the need to fit on 13" rims). And for this season at least, they are preventing one car with huge amounts of downforce from making every other team look very ordinary indeed. |
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16 Apr 2013, 12:51 (Ref:3235282)
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#164 | |||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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16 Apr 2013, 14:53 (Ref:3235337)
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#165 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,191
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It is absolutely nonsense that the standardized tyres are a consequence of the 2005 United States debacle. In fact, the FIA had the intention to introduce the so-called control tyre since 2004. And if the 2005 United States debacle had anything to do with the ending of the tyre war, why did the FIA change the regulations to prevent a repeat after the tyres were standardized?
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__________________
'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari
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16 Apr 2013, 16:01 (Ref:3235367)
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#166 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,013
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Sorry Marbot on whatever effect my boycott has on your Pirelli investments.
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16 Apr 2013, 18:28 (Ref:3235430)
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#167 | |||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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16 Apr 2013, 21:55 (Ref:3235510)
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#168 | |||||
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Retired
20KPINAL
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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Quote:
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For the following year the regulations were changed so that the tyres didn't have to last for a whole race distance whilst there was competition between more than one tyre manufacturer. Quote:
Perhaps they could just make a safer one, rather than ones that perform better?
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16 Apr 2013, 22:23 (Ref:3235522)
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#169 | ||
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Retired
20KPINAL
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,897
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Quote:
 The Pirelli run-flats on the wifes Cooper S - FANTASTICO!  IIRC, Pirelli tyres are fitted as standard to Mercs. Is your wife driving the safety car this season? |
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16 Apr 2013, 23:31 (Ref:3235547)
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#170 | ||||
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,013
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17 Apr 2013, 00:15 (Ref:3235561)
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#171 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,402
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Scott dump those shares..
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17 Apr 2013, 00:39 (Ref:3235564)
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#172 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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17 Apr 2013, 12:59 (Ref:3235790)
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#173 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,013
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Quote:
...hmmm, where did I heard that before?
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17 Apr 2013, 13:01 (Ref:3235793)
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#174 | |||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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18 Apr 2013, 11:10 (Ref:3236141)
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#175 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,188
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Hankook apparently was very close to securing the tender for 2011-2013. Now there's talk about Hankook being the F1 tyre supplier for 2014-2016!
Have had Hankook on my road car and my track car, and was impressed with their road tyres. Their track tyres were... ok. |
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