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Old 4 Sep 2012, 00:30 (Ref:3130275)   #276
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 03:06 (Ref:3130302)   #277
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Canopies approved by NHRA for drag racing on an optional basis.

http://dragillustrated.com/?p=1420

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Old 4 Sep 2012, 03:10 (Ref:3130304)   #278
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Canopies approved by NHRA for drag racing on an optional basis.

http://dragillustrated.com/?p=1420

How quickly can a driver get out of that?
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 03:33 (Ref:3130310)   #279
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How quickly can a driver get out of that?

Quicker than without his head or than Senna and a host of others I should imagine.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 10:30 (Ref:3130465)   #280
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Quicker than without his head or than Senna and a host of others I should imagine.
That doesn't really answer my question.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 10:41 (Ref:3130470)   #281
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How quickly can a driver get out of that?
3 secs tops
From article: "The module is reinforced for further side protection. The canopy can be quickly released inside by the driver or at the rear by crew or safety workers. The canopy also carries a fire suppression system and fresh-air breathing system similar to those used in Funny Cars"
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 11:04 (Ref:3130484)   #282
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3 secs tops
From article: "The module is reinforced for further side protection. The canopy can be quickly released inside by the driver or at the rear by crew or safety workers. The canopy also carries a fire suppression system and fresh-air breathing system similar to those used in Funny Cars"
I'm skeptical. The drivers got to release his belt/harness, then release the canopy, then haul them self out of the car and in a panic situation; 5 seconds plus.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 11:26 (Ref:3130494)   #283
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The most certain solution for driver safety is to not have the driver in the car.

On the other hand a driver independent of the car might lead to some hard charging on the track and so increase costs, even taking into account driver salaries, to cover the repair bills.

Given what the military can do with drones and so on I imagine there are few reasons to continue with the dangerous concept of having a driver in the car. Not having a driver to accommodate should lead to some innovative new design solutions which, after all, is what F1 has always been about. Hasn't it?


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Old 4 Sep 2012, 11:32 (Ref:3130499)   #284
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If I recall correctly, In the recent Snetterton BTCC meeting it took Gordon Shedden 7 seconds to get out of the passenger side of his Civic after a fuel line ruptured and set the driver's side ablaze.

Belts undone, radio/bottle loom undone then climbing through the rollcage to the opposite door and out of the car. It's amazing what a person can do when their rear end is being cooked gently. I freely admit that it's not an F1 car so he wasn't in a prone position and had a bit more room to move, but still.

People (probably here too) moaned furiously about higher cockpit sides when they were mandated. Hell, people moaned about the HANS device being introduced (too restrictive yadda yadda)... and the main US proponent of the opposition to that promptly ran into a wall and died.

Shall we wait and see what proposals there are - or even better, try to actually think of some?

There are already systems out there on the Mercedes SLS that can release the gull wing doors in the event of it rolling over, so quick release systems for an F1 canopy wouldn't be too hard to introduce.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 11:34 (Ref:3130501)   #285
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The most certain solution for driver safety is to not have the driver in the car.

On the other hand a driver independent of the car might lead to some hard charging on the track and so increase costs, even taking into account driver salaries, to cover the repair bills.

Given what the military can do with drones and so on I imagine there are few reasons to continue with the dangerous concept of having a driver in the car. Not having a driver to accommodate should lead to some innovative new design solutions which, after all, is what F1 has always been about. Hasn't it?


Not to mention the cost of paying the driver; think what could be done with all that extra money.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 12:18 (Ref:3130532)   #286
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If I recall correctly, In the recent Snetterton BTCC meeting it took Gordon Shedden 7 seconds to get out of the passenger side of his Civic after a fuel line ruptured and set the driver's side ablaze.

Belts undone, radio/bottle loom undone then climbing through the rollcage to the opposite door and out of the car. It's amazing what a person can do when their rear end is being cooked gently. I freely admit that it's not an F1 car so he wasn't in a prone position and had a bit more room to move, but still.

People (probably here too) moaned furiously about higher cockpit sides when they were mandated. Hell, people moaned about the HANS device being introduced (too restrictive yadda yadda)... and the main US proponent of the opposition to that promptly ran into a wall and died.

Shall we wait and see what proposals there are - or even better, try to actually think of some?

There are already systems out there on the Mercedes SLS that can release the gull wing doors in the event of it rolling over, so quick release systems for an F1 canopy wouldn't be too hard to introduce.
Quick release is pretty simple.

Earlier I proposed a pneumatic ram under the roll hoop, that could be triggered either by the driver or external track marshall like the extinguishers, that could force the canopy off the car and push the car up in the event of a roll over. All you would need is a pneumatic cylinder with its own gas bottle (Nitrogen / Argon) and it could be set to any rate the heart desires, from pogo stick to very slow. Simple, and would prevent any possibility of a driver being trapped under an overturned car. If only David Purley had access to such a jacking device!

Similar to the air jacks used in the touring cars, but on the top of the car!
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 12:24 (Ref:3130538)   #287
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Quick release is pretty simple.

Earlier I proposed a pneumatic ram under the roll hoop, that could be triggered either by the driver or external track marshall like the extinguishers, that could force the canopy off the car and push the car up in the event of a roll over. All you would need is a pneumatic cylinder with its own gas bottle (Nitrogen / Argon) and it could be set to any rate the heart desires, from pogo stick to very slow. Simple, and would prevent any possibility of a driver being trapped under an overturned car. If only David Purley had access to such a jacking device!

Similar to the air jacks used in the touring cars, but on the top of the car!
Isn't the roll hoop incorporated into the airbox?
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 14:57 (Ref:3130604)   #288
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i have no doubt that designing a system would be a simple matter for smart engineers but implementing it and ensuring it would work in all situations, so after a massive accident, is another matter all together.

i can see the benefits of exploring this idea but is the open cockpit still the lesser of two evils?
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 17:29 (Ref:3130685)   #289
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This could be the Ferrari
http://www.largaron.com/noticias.php?articulo_id=10036
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 17:37 (Ref:3130687)   #290
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Looks quite sexy but where's the door - or does the driver have to slither in via the air intake or something?

Maybe it just needs a nodding helmet inside. The driver could be elsewhere.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 17:59 (Ref:3130692)   #291
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Here are more details of the design
http://www.iacoski.com/fx-i1_closed_cockpit_concept/
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 18:07 (Ref:3130696)   #292
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I've seen that before.
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Old 4 Sep 2012, 22:48 (Ref:3130879)   #293
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Yup. links were posted to that earlier in this very thread.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 02:46 (Ref:3130969)   #294
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Isn't the roll hoop incorporated into the airbox?
Nothing to stop a powerful ram simply forcing / breaking the airbox off. No problem there.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 14:48 (Ref:3131337)   #295
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Nothing to stop a powerful ram simply forcing / breaking the airbox off. No problem there.
You proposed a pneumatic ram under the roll hoop. How is it going to fit with the the roll hoop incorporated into the airbox? There isn't enough room.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 23:01 (Ref:3131671)   #296
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If your looking at an all new design to incorporate a mandated enclosed cockpit, then the design mandate could include some for of Ram or device that deploys to ensure that there is sufficient clearance from the device fully extended to the body of the car, ensuring that the cockpit can be released for the driver to escape.

However another though occurs...

How about explosive chord running through the cockpit glass like on the Harrier or Hawk aircraft. rather than the whole canopy blowing off like an F16, the charge shatters the glass allowing the pilot to eject.

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In this case, in the event of a roll over, it can be "detonated" by the driver inside the car, or an external button by a marshal in a similar fashion to the cut off, or neutral button.

Clearly though marshal education would be required, and there would need to be literally a safety (remove before driving) pin of common design that gets inserted when in the pits/garages to prevent shattering the cockpit accidentally. Also every marshal would need to be issued with one and collected back up again (same set travelling the world), to make a car safe that stops at the side of the track.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 23:37 (Ref:3131692)   #297
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You proposed a pneumatic ram under the roll hoop. How is it going to fit with the the roll hoop incorporated into the airbox? There isn't enough room.

The whole pneumatic cylinder would be a max of 50mm in diameter and 500mm long, could be self contained, and could push a plate that was flush and integral with the roll hoop out above the hoop on activation, forcing off the canopy and if necessary lifting the car up off the ground or pushing it away from an obstacle that was preventing the driver escaping. The canopy would additionally have quick release mountings.

Activation would be from the cockpit, or externally by the marshalls as per the extinguisher system.
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Old 5 Sep 2012, 23:43 (Ref:3131697)   #298
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The whole pneumatic cylinder would be a max of 50mm in diameter and 500mm long, could be self contained, and could push a plate that was flush and integral with the roll hoop out above the hoop on activation, forcing off the canopy and if necessary lifting the car up off the ground or pushing it away from an obstacle that was preventing the driver escaping. The canopy would additionally have quick release mountings.

Activation would be from the cockpit, or externally by the marshalls as per the extinguisher system.
I'd like to see a drawing/diagram of this.
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 01:19 (Ref:3131737)   #299
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The top fuel dragster- Sarge of tony schumacher, ran a canopy this weekend.
Looked cool from the outside, inside it was like staring out a skinny lmp.
It could work, I would rather start off with a car from 1967, apply a canopy, and evolve the design and see what can be, style wise.
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Old 6 Sep 2012, 07:10 (Ref:3131805)   #300
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I'm skeptical. The drivers got to release his belt/harness, then release the canopy, then haul them self out of the car and in a panic situation; 5 seconds plus.
yeah thats still doable in under 3 secs depending on your body mass
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