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4 Feb 2018, 16:30 (Ref:3798436) | #101 | ||
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Everyone who invokes tradition is usually very selective about which traditions they wish to see return. Leather crash helmets and optional seat belts seem to have very few fans clamouring for resurrection, so why are so many people concerned about this particular tradition?
Because it's a proxy fight. It's a very simple and easily promotable example of a wider societal change - a large number of people (many women, but also a lot of men) saying "look, X isn't acceptable anymore" - in this case X = using women as decorative scenery/furniture. And sure, you can make it about "those poor women, they've lost their jobs" all you like, but nobody on the pro-grid girls side is (correct me if I'm wrong) out there marching for better rights for cleaning agency staff, or stronger protections from harassment for hotel workers. It's not the grid girls. It's the world they stand for. I'm quite comfortable with that world passing in to history and living in a world which no longer sees 50% of the population as potential decoration/a prize for men. |
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4 Feb 2018, 19:00 (Ref:3798451) | #102 | |
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Living in the US (particularly in the south), I see many parallels between this discussion and the discussion about how and when to display the Confederate battle flag. “Tradition” and “heritage” being shared arguments for keeping the status quo regardless of how many (most?) view the symbol in question.
I think a point missed here is that symbols from the past that may have started with one purpose or meaning evolves (or is co-opted) into having a different meaning as time moves forward. The swastika is an example of this. I predates Nazi Germany, but now is difficult to use in any prior historic context given the negative connotation of our recent past. To be clear, I can very well see both sides of these arguments and have my own mixed feelings. For example I grew up with the concept of grid girls and at least I “think” it didn’t create or enforce any negative biases toward women (I very much like to think I am not the stereotypical ogre male regardless of the era of my youth, but we all have our biases and are sometimes blind to them). I think I had a very innocent (maybe naive) viewpoint for a long time. It was part of the show and I just didn’t put much thought into it. And today, while not everyone might agree, I don’t see being a sexual creature (if you got it, flaunt it) being contrary to feminism. Many arguments for the status quo. But today I can also clearly see the counter argument of degradation and more importantly ( for me) acting to reinforce negative gender roles when viewed by young children, especially young girls. For me.. that strongly outweighs “how it used to be” and a need to cling to something that may not have really existed in the pure form some like to think it was. And while many here who support the status quo may be loath to admit this, clearly part of the grid girl concept is nothing more than women as decoration (a pervasive negative gender role). Dressing that up with gentle euphemisms such as “glamour” doesn’t make the bad part go away. Richard |
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4 Feb 2018, 22:17 (Ref:3798479) | #103 | |
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Surely the viewpoint that matters the most here is the view of the grid girls themselves???
Nobody forced them to accept that job, and I don't see why anyone should force them not to... |
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5 Feb 2018, 00:24 (Ref:3798513) | #104 | |||
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5 Feb 2018, 01:58 (Ref:3798539) | #105 | ||
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I want to clarify something about my post above. I am not equating those who support grid girls with Nazis or racists. Rather, I am saying they (particularly the flag and grid girl issues) share a weak argument (tradition), which IMHO ignores the fact that social norms are not static and never have been. What is painful is living through and adjusting to an inflection point. Richard |
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5 Feb 2018, 04:15 (Ref:3798565) | #106 | |||
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5 Feb 2018, 10:39 (Ref:3798639) | #107 | |||
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I have to admit I've kind of tuned out a bit on this thread but I did see something relevant over the weekend - Leena Gade has posted a few bits on social media:
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5 Feb 2018, 10:49 (Ref:3798641) | #108 | |
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She seems to come off with good sense there, this ban is not gonna change much tbh
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5 Feb 2018, 11:13 (Ref:3798644) | #109 | |
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But the Liberty statements don't say they have stopped hiring grid girls for that reason. Why is it not enough that they don't feel it represents their brand, and the image that they want to put across with their product? Why does this have to be an even bigger issue than it currently is?
A company decided that using women as purely aesthetically props to look at doesn't fit with their image. I really can't see a problem with that. Of all the thousands of massive, some huge negative, changes that have gone on in F1 over decades, few seemed to have caused issues as big as this. |
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5 Feb 2018, 11:58 (Ref:3798655) | #110 | |||
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5 Feb 2018, 13:51 (Ref:3798677) | #111 | ||
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I'll give you a fair point on this thread:
What's worse? To have grid girls or to have grid robots instead? Just my two cents. |
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5 Feb 2018, 14:09 (Ref:3798685) | #112 | ||
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the reality is a lot of girls have to be their own cheerleaders, especially when they’re younger and don’t have anyone to share their interest with. the plus side of an online community now is that they can reach out to women already in the sport quite easily, and d2bd gives a good starting point. it’s a touch of the “if i can, so can anybody”s, which frankly is never, ever that simple. |
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5 Feb 2018, 15:16 (Ref:3798706) | #113 | |
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Grid Girls in F1 do not represent brands. They may do in BTCC, but not in F1. That part simply is not true.
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5 Feb 2018, 15:23 (Ref:3798708) | #114 | |
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https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-for...lled-grid-kids
I should sting them for copyright; I suggested that ages ago! |
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5 Feb 2018, 15:29 (Ref:3798711) | #115 | |
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As did I. If anyone wants to hire me, I'm available.
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5 Feb 2018, 15:50 (Ref:3798717) | #116 | ||
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Have you got a suitable costume?
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96 days... |
5 Feb 2018, 15:54 (Ref:3798720) | #117 | |
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*resists obvious joke about there already being 20-odd clowns on the grid*
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5 Feb 2018, 16:08 (Ref:3798723) | #118 | ||
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5 Feb 2018, 16:20 (Ref:3798726) | #119 | ||
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5 Feb 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3798727) | #120 | ||
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Good move - make the sport more accessible to kids. Hopefully inspire them - much like they did in the London 2012 Olympics opening ceremony etc.
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5 Feb 2018, 16:22 (Ref:3798728) | #121 | |
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No different to what they do in football with the little mascots that come on the field
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5 Feb 2018, 16:33 (Ref:3798730) | #122 | ||
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In F1, the kids will be on the grid before the pit lane opens, then stand about in the heat of the day for about 45 minutes till the anthems have been played and the grid cleared at the 5 minute board. Hardly compares. |
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5 Feb 2018, 16:42 (Ref:3798735) | #123 | ||
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And no doubt that they will need a grid girl to supervise them /ensure their safety!
Two birds killed with one stone! |
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5 Feb 2018, 17:01 (Ref:3798741) | #124 | ||
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Quote:
Richard |
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5 Feb 2018, 17:02 (Ref:3798742) | #125 | ||
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At club football matches the kids and their families are involved with the team for hours - tours of the ground, meet the players, maybe have a warmup kickabout, have a meal in an executive box *and* get to watch the match. It's an almost exact analogue, and we should be getting behind it as it will influence and inspire some of the children. Not all, but some. I genuinely can't understand the whole 'exploitation' thing at all. It seems that this is one of those "I HAVE TO BE ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING" knee-jerk responses |
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