HANS Device

[Sean McInerney]

I unfortunaetly had the pleasure of experiencing the effectiveness of the HANS Device at the weekend at Snetterton. The impact of the accident was square on, which meant that the only thing stopping my head from hyper-extension, was the HANS. This was the first time i had worn the thing, and almost did'nt wear it due to it not being the most comfortable of things to get used to, but i emplor all of you who are racing to seriously consider wearing one from this point on. Don't get me wrong, i still had a stiff neck, but it severly reduced the movement of my neck. It's not cheap to buy, but money can't replace what it can potentially save. Doas anyone feel that it should become a compulsory item in club racing?

[1200Datto27]

I'm not sure about the making of the HANS compulsary in all events, unless the price drops, but I do advise anyone to use one. I have been using one this year (luckily haven't tested it yet) and whilst for the first session or two I found it slightly uncomfortable, I now find not using it (motorkhana's) to be strange.

[johnw]

Used mine for the first time last weekend too.
I found no discomfort, just a little strange being limited to 45 degrees left and right. Also need to determine means of getting into the car, with it on or putting it on once I'm in. I needed ateam of "dressers" to help me out

Comforting to hear that you felt it a benefit Sean, but sorry that you had the need to test it.

The compulsion idea has been discussed at length on here (try a search on Hans device in British Club Racing or something similar). I think that the vote was about 40 to 35 in favour.
Cost understandably seems to be the main problem. I guess that they will get cheaper as the take up increases. Jason at DT was very helpful.

I found that by missing one distance meeting, it was paid for. Worth it IMHO.

[graeme]

Difficult to make it compulsory when the whole caboodal probably costs over a grand (HANS device, new seatbelts, modifications to chassis for belts, possibly a new helmet...). I also think (having never tried one...) that the lack of head movement could cause accidents because of the narrow angle of visiblity the driver has???

Does anyone use a Hutchins (?) device - any thoughts on costs and use?

[flagwaver]

Graeme why do you think you will need new belts etc?

[jminsh]

Originally Posted by graeme

Difficult to make it compulsory when the whole caboodal probably costs over a grand (HANS device, new seatbelts, modifications to chassis for belts, possibly a new helmet...). I also think (having never tried one...) that the lack of head movement could cause accidents because of the narrow angle of visiblity the driver has???

Seatbelts aren't a nescesity .

The only time visibiliy could be an issue would be when reversing .Having used one and had no probs i can only say they're well worth it .

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by jminsh

Seatbelts aren't a nescesity .

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I have 3 inch belts and have been told I need 2 inch, I need a new helmet (would be buying one soon anyway) so that comes to well over £1100 with the HANS device.
I must admit that I am coming round to the idea of getting one though.

[johnw]

Certainly Graeme it will be a unique cost for each driver.
I was lucky, compatible helmet, existing belts and mountings are fine, (and there's no need for new belts).
I spoke to the BTCC doctor (apologies for forgetting his name) and he gave me some advice on the adjustment of the hans straps which will give more lateral movment.
The factory "setting" is by nature a compromise, and it seems as though they need bespoke tuning.
Martin Hunt BARC Rescue god (teletubby in these pages) is going to organise a HANS training day so that we can all benefit from the existing information.

I looked at all the other head restraint options (Hutchens, Simpson, a simple strap and one that uses telescopic dampers!) but if you look at the HANS website www.hansdevice.com there is some comparative test data which indicates that HANS way outperforms the other methods. They have stopped using Hutchens in Nascar and mandated HANS.

[graeme]

Need 2" seatbelts for HANS device - may just be a Caterham thing - one of our guys got and HANS and wrote a piece about how to go about it - http://www.graduates.org.uk/racing/H...ep%20guide.doc

The type of thing I'm thinking about with visibility is in my last race the guy in front was hugging the inside of Park Straight at Cadwell as i had a run on him. I passed him 'round the outside but then had to move to the inside to prevent coming back past on the inside going into Park Bend. When I was passing him, I was looking sideways, perhaps even rearwards to figure when I could chop back in. If I'd had a HANS on I couldn't have judged it and - just maybe - I would have clipped him???

There's photo on the front page of the Grads website (www.graduates.org.uk - refresh until the picture of the green/yellow and black Caterhams come up) doing a similar sort of thing.

[johnw]

Falcemob
I have 3 inch belts, absolutely no problem.
There are "HANS compatible" belts on the market with narrower shoulder straps, but not a requirement for safe use.
PM me for my phone number if you like, as I haven't the time to write everything here.

[johnw]

I have a seat with ears, and that already limits the view somewhat. We need to make good use of mirrors for the manoeuvre you describe.

[midgetman]

How does 2" belts to use a HANS sit with having to have FIA 3" belts to race? I nearly bought one, but I just couldn't afford it. Oh I know the costs of not having one is higher but...........I go racing without a HANS or I get a HANS and don't race this year. £1000 I reckon - and that's the cost of entry to my two race meetings this season. I'm using a neck support anyway.

Max

[Tuscan 6]

The neck support is designed to limit the head 'lolling' on the shoulders. The HANS device is designed to stop a specific type of fatal neck fracture - i.e. over extension of the neck, effectively the head 'pops' off the neck - in a frontal impact.

To say 'I'm using a neck support anyway' kind of misses the point.

[johnw]

Max
You do not need 2 inch belts for the HANS.
If the neck support was firm enough to help, it would probably injure you. They are not the same thing.

[Wilbo]

The Stand 21 item is a slightly improved design (and no I don't work for them or recieve commission). The Schroth item I looked at had two channels which located these 2" straps you are on about (may have changed since). The stand 21 item has a grippy surface and hence 3" belts are fine.

Also Sean what caused the accident? was it a coming together with the MG or were they seperate incidents. It seemed quite a distance away from the track so you must have been carrying some speed. Were there no gravel traps between the circuit and the tyre wall?

[simes43]

I have just started using my HANS this season.

The lesson I have learned is to practice getting into the car and sorting out your own belts long before you reach the assembly area!

[ss_collins]

I have to point out that in my recent shunt at longcross a hans would possibly have worsened my injuries - if not made them fatal - the ability to move my head out of the way of the tree no doubt reduced the injury I recieved. I stand by my anti hans stance even more so now. Especially when considering the nature of the event (SV tarmac rally) it could have caused another accident earlier in the day.

Hans wear it if you like but remember it might kill you as well as save you.

[Al Weyman]

Hans wear it if you like but remember it might kill you as well as save you.

I would like a pound for every time I have heard that arguement from young guys (and older guys come to that) who for some reason will not wear seat belts on the road. Having said that the cost is prohibitive and I don't think they should be compusory but I would consider one.

[Woolley]

I'd like to see the physics on that one, Sam. The distance and speed your head will move in the course of the impact (even with the Hans) is far greater than the amount you could move it out of the way before the impact. Just look at any onboard footage and see the amount of travel, even causing a properly fitted open face helmet to twist off the head on occasions. Likelehood is you were missing the tree anyway, even if it didn't seem that way. I have been to a single seater driver who had wall marks on the top of his helmet, despite the side pods remaining fully intact. However, neither of us can prove the point, so I suggest we just leave the opposing viewpoints up there and let others decide for themselves.

There has been a suggestion that the device can increase the chance of a broken collarbone in certain impacts, but if I were driving, I'd risk that as it tends to repair better than a basal skull fracture.

I am surprised that Hans should specify narrower seatbelts, which doesn't seem to fit in with what I've seen on drivers. Is it possible that the specification should say minimum of 2", not must be 2"?

[flagwaver]

As others have already stated FIA aproved seatbelts are 3 inch wide so I to fail to see the need for 2 inch belts.

[R59]

The issue with 3" belts are thus:

According to Schroth, their tests showed that 3" belts may be likely to slip off of the device if they are not tightend enough, where a 2" belt will stay put.

Increasing the width of the device to accomodate 3" belts increased the possibility of breaking both collar bones to near 100%, hence them only being wide enough for 2".

I used a HANS for the first time in my first (albeit short) outing this year. I have some tweaking of the strap lengths to sort out, but I didn't find it uncomfortable at all.

The type of impact that you mention Sam, was not the sort that the HANS was designed for. It was designed to combat the effects of the "classic 1-o-clock impact". The type that has killed many racers, including Dale Earnhart.

Your argument is flawed, like JohnW says - in that it could be applied to seatbelts, especially in road cars where the car is t-boned, and the seats squashed together where the occupants cannot release the belts, and the worst thing happens - it catches fire. Against :1 - For : Still lots.

Now the issue with FIA.

The belts are FIA approved ONLY when used with the HANS device. Therefore, if you share your car with someone else, then they HAVE to use a HANS for the FIA approval to be valid.

Obviously, this does not apply to national racing - until someone get's injured because they do something silly and the MSA amend the rules.

If the other forms of restraint were as good or better, then NASCAR and F1 would use them. I need say no more.

The issue with approved hats is another one that wound me up a bit. I bought an AGV hat last year. However, AGV have yet to submit any of their products to HANS for approval. So I had to buy one that was approved. Still, it's cheaper than a new head.

I agree with Wooley. Collarbones repair better than basal skull fractures (which are fatal in most cases).

You only get one neck, and one spinal cord, and as yet, they haven't mastered repairing the latter.

Rob.

[scrutineer]

Just a quick point to raise here, maybe this is why you are always moaning when the you come to scrutineering saying that we are not consistent. Maybe its just you all talk and controdict one another that much you dont have a clue what you are doing and who has told you what.
And one final point SS there were a lot of people against wearing crash helmets, would you get into a car now without one???

[Les]

I was thinking the same - you wouldn't see anyone going out with a helmet or overalls - that would be unthinkable so in a couple of years the same will be said for Hans (I hope)

[woodyracing]

from what i've seen it looks like a very dodgy solution to the problem. I would have thought the shoulder straps on the hans would be secured some better way than simply resting under the harness where it could slip out. Also I dont like the restricted left and right movement, if you end up sideways on the track you need to turn your head 90 degrees to see what is coming! I wonder when the next gadget will come on the market.

[chezza]

Originally Posted by racing59

The type of impact that you mention Sam, was not the sort that the HANS was designed for. It was designed to combat the effects of the "classic 1-o-clock impact". The type that has killed many racers, including Dale Earnhart.

You have kind of proved Sams point there. His accident was not the type of accident that HANS was designed for and he has said that there is a possibility that if he had been wearing a HANS it might have caused him further injury.

Yes many drivers have been killed in "classic 1-o-clock impact" type accidents. What about all the other types of impact/rolls that this device is not designed for?? How many injuries will it cause?

I certainly do no think that the HANS should be compulsary in rallying (as it currently is in the WRC). With single venue rallies good all round vision is needed as there are often many merges and splits. Also I have seen it where the device has slipped...what happens if the driver had an accident then??

I wonder how long it will be before we see a serious injury/fatality that is directly attributed to the HANS device?!