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Old 11 Aug 2015, 13:04 (Ref:3565322)   #1276
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Originally Posted by wdave0 View Post
The Daytona folks just don't get that variety is important to sportscar fans so they wilfully handicap it, then wonder where the spectators went, buy a series with variety and spectators and handicap the variety again.
Sort of explain's IMSA's love affair with LMPC. They think having any cars on the track for the sake having cars out there makes a difference. They give this category too much respect when they should be telling the team owners to look for another class to go to. People don't' buy tickets for them.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 13:06 (Ref:3565325)   #1277
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The Daytona folks just don't get that variety is important to sportscar fans so they wilfully handicap it, then wonder where the spectators went, buy a series with variety and spectators and handicap the variety again.
Or maybe they do, it's just not a viable long term solution since the cost to compete skyrockets. Cut costs - cut variety.

What's the percentage of spectator ticket sales to participant fees, etc? i.e., How possible would it be for WTUSCCTUDORISCNAECLMNOP to survive if spectator tickets were no offered?

From the outside it looks as if there should be a balance between getting people through the gate and making sure your competitors are happy to continue spending cubic dollars. The specness factor (in whatever form) communicates strongly that mgmt is catering more to the teams at the expense of getting people through the gates.

What would theoretically happen if the series went full "we only care about teams"?


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Originally Posted by jasonjessica09 View Post
Sort of explain's IMSA's love affair with LMPC. They think having any cars on the track for the sake having cars out there makes a difference. They give this category too much respect when they should be telling the team owners to look for another class to go to. People don't' buy tickets for them.
Perfect example.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 13:34 (Ref:3565326)   #1278
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Or maybe they do, it's just not a viable long term solution since the cost to compete skyrockets. Cut costs - cut variety.

That works for PC but not for GTD or GTLM for example - charging a big fee to allow an already existing make to enter is not a favor to the entrants or spectators and increases the cost to compete, only lining the pockets of the sanctioning body and discouraging variety.

Whatever happened to that motto "For the Fans"? Haven't heard that for a while.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 14:05 (Ref:3565328)   #1279
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Went away during ALMS...
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 14:26 (Ref:3565333)   #1280
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It became a running joke...
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 14:47 (Ref:3565336)   #1281
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Or maybe they do, it's just not a viable long term solution since the cost to compete skyrockets. Cut costs - cut variety.
Sorry, but WEC, Blancpain, ELMS etc are booming. If managed correctly then variety works well. If NASCAR needs to cut variety to keep the costs down then it just means its badly managed. But we already knew that anyway.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 15:02 (Ref:3565339)   #1282
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Costs are always a major concern, when there is an absence of value.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 16:44 (Ref:3565347)   #1283
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Sorry, but WEC, Blancpain, ELMS etc are booming. If managed correctly then variety works well. If NASCAR needs to cut variety to keep the costs down then it just means its badly managed. But we already knew that anyway.
I don't see the WEC top class in need of cost cutting to attract/keep entrants because the entrants want to spend less money...

Though WEC and ELMS are on the horizon of experiencing some of this cost cutting with the less variation P2 class coming in the next few years.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 16:54 (Ref:3565352)   #1284
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I don't see the WEC top class in need of cost cutting to attract/keep entrants because the entrants want to spend less money...

Though WEC and ELMS are on the horizon of experiencing some of this cost cutting with the less variation P2 class coming in the next few years.
But I don't believe for a second that there will be cost cutting in anyway. The idea that "running costs" will be less is a lie.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 17:08 (Ref:3565356)   #1285
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I don't have an opinion it will work or not, except that we're told variation in the class is being reduced as a cost cutting measure. May work, may not.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 17:16 (Ref:3565361)   #1286
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Costs are always a major concern, when there is an absence of value.
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 17:19 (Ref:3565363)   #1287
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The Daytona folks just don't get that variety is important to sportscar fans ...
No worries, neither does the WEC/FIA/ACO...
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 19:21 (Ref:3565389)   #1288
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In other news - Memo Gidley update:

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12019...es-in-recovery

Sounds like the guy's gone thru hell, fortunately doing better now, hope we'll seem him back at the race track one day (but not necessarily as a driver)!
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Old 11 Aug 2015, 20:56 (Ref:3565409)   #1289
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I don't have an opinion it will work or not, except that we're told variation in the class is being reduced as a cost cutting measure. May work, may not.
One thing Grand-Am never understood was that the cars are the stars. People WANT to see the different machinery. If not, they'd just watch NASCAR with fake bodies on tube-framed chassis.
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 01:38 (Ref:3565468)   #1290
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One thing Grand-Am never understood was that the cars are the stars. People WANT to see the different machinery. If not, they'd just watch NASCAR with fake bodies on tube-framed chassis.
Lots of people watch NASCAR, lots more than sportscars.
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 02:12 (Ref:3565474)   #1291
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Lots of people watch NASCAR, lots more than sportscars.
Exactly, Americans as a whole care more about drivers/individuals than the cars when it comes to racing.
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 02:21 (Ref:3565476)   #1292
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That isn't just America but the whole world. Of course majority are gonna be interested in personalities and grand entities.

BullMan should've said 'sportscar fan base', not general 'people'.

If the correct answer for making sportscar racing popular was making the drivers the bigger stars and cars technologically uninteresting and underwhelming stockcar-sportscar variants for the effect of "wheel-banging close racing", Grand-Am would have won the popularity battle over ALMS. Didn't.

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Old 12 Aug 2015, 07:42 (Ref:3565509)   #1293
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Lots of people watch NASCAR, lots more than sportscars.
If the ultimate aim is to appeal to the same people, then it may fail. Given NASCAR has so many events (sometimes 3 per weekend), it is hard to ask those people to then give up another few hours of their weekend to go watch a sports car race.

However there IS a market for people who want to see amazing cars. And that isn't really catered to very well in America right now. The same people exist in Europe, and it makes WEC, Le Mans and Blancpain great series.

Different markets are fine. TUSCC will never match the popularity of NASCAR. But if it tries to, it might end up please nobody.
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 09:30 (Ref:3565538)   #1294
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Bingo; it's different and needs to emphasise the differences. Otherwise it's pointless. It needs a message of "these are amazing, exotic, advanced cars", instead of trying the same approach as NASCAR.

To their credit, I think they're trying to work that out.
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 14:10 (Ref:3565582)   #1295
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That isn't just America but the whole world. Of course majority are gonna be interested in personalities and grand entities.

BullMan should've said 'sportscar fan base', not general 'people'.

If the correct answer for making sportscar racing popular was making the drivers the bigger stars and cars technologically uninteresting and underwhelming stockcar-sportscar variants for the effect of "wheel-banging close racing", Grand-Am would have won the popularity battle over ALMS. Didn't.
Exactly. Maybe a poor word choice on my part. One reason I gave up on NASCAR was its complete lack of interesting machinery. The cars we get in sportscars (well, with a couple of exceptions) are interesting. They're cars like the ones you see on the street and want to buy. There's little sense in limiting the variety. Variety should be a marketing point, not a reason to limit participation.
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 19:13 (Ref:3565634)   #1296
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I'm a NASCAR fan who watches Sportscar, but I watch it for a different experience. If Sportscars was like NASCAR, why would I watch it?
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Old 12 Aug 2015, 19:56 (Ref:3565642)   #1297
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because Nascar!
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 03:11 (Ref:3565723)   #1298
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I don't think they know (or care to have it) any other way. And the leftover old IMSA gang have been brainwashed to think the same, for example Elkins's sign language transformed quite a bit during the last few years of his service
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 04:03 (Ref:3565733)   #1299
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Whatever happened to that motto "For the Fans"? Haven't heard that for a while.
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Went away during ALMS...
Some of the people and teams in sports car racing who used to be involved in the American Le Mans Series still use the motto sometimes, and they certainly still keep the spirit of fan-friendliness alive.

The "new" IMSA series is another matter. There's a very noticeable paradigm shift from the ALMS' "For the Fans" motto to the "new" IMSA's "Follow Us".
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 14:09 (Ref:3565803)   #1300
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Some of the people and teams in sports car racing who used to be involved in the American Le Mans Series still use the motto sometimes, and they certainly still keep the spirit of fan-friendliness alive.

The "new" IMSA series is another matter. There's a very noticeable paradigm shift from the ALMS' "For the Fans" motto to the "new" IMSA's "Follow Us".
Can you clarify that last statement a bit? When actually attending races I still feel like the series and teams treat fans as an important resource. The series had been working to improve TV coverage and had added the RLM team back for radio but includes video as well. Which is something fans specifically wanted.
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