Trailers & Tow cars.

[eclectic]

Here am I reviving a thread from 10 years ago.

I am, once again, looking for a good tow vehicle, but now my needs have changed a bit, I share it with my partner of the last few years and she has horses.

We were using a Kia Sorento, boring but usually reliable, however I recently noticed that it is only rated at 2,000kgs and the trailer plus two horses weighs more..........

If I were to tow my 1922 Vauxhall on my 500kg Woodford trailer, that too would exceed the legal limit.

So, any suggestions?

The Audi allroad that I used to tow with had too little room for three people plus all the tack.

[MGDavid]

Have you tried a quick google?
here's a sample comment from back in 2008....

'there are lots of vehicles that have legal towing capacities in the region of 3-3500kg - range rover , discovery , L200 , navara , ranger, trooper , landcruiser'

Also check the FourTrak and the Rexton....

[Peter Mallett]

A Jeep Grand Cherokee would do the job. I think they are rated 3500Kg all up.

[eclectic]

I am hoping to get a reply from someone who has direct experience, my budget is circa £10,000 and the Audi Q7, VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne are all ruled out as very unreliable as they get older.

[Tim Falce]

Toyota Landcruiser Colorados can tow 2800kg and the Amazon 3500kg. I've had a 1999 Colorado auto since 2008 and it's a good tow car apart from being a bit juicy although the D4D is supposed to be a lot better.

[Tel 911S]

Well , I have a Kia Sorento , & that is rated at 3000Kg towing .
It is manual which has a higher rating than the auto , but have a look in your log book which should say the tow weight .

[Tel 911S]

http://www.gocaravanning.com/towcars/

This link has a tow weight rating for a lot of vehicles .

[eclectic]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Well , I have a Kia Sorento , & that is rated at 3000Kg towing .
It is manual which has a higher rating than the auto , but have a look in your log book which should say the tow weight .

You have just saved me a shed load of dosh, I had checked the towing capacity on line, where it clearly said the 2007 Sorento was only rated at 2,000kgs.

However, I have now just checked the hand book, et voila! 3,000kgs, maybe its the fact that it was first sold on 21/12/2007 makes a difference, ie, its a 2008 model?

Anyway, excellent news for this old duffer who hadn't done his research properly.

[Adam43]

Brilliant I think Tel 911S has just won forum member of the month!

[GORDON STREETER]

Some of the "oldies" on here may have heard this story of what happened to me years ago.
We were coming back from Knockhill and the police overtook and indicated for us to exit at the next junction, I wasn't actually driving the Transit and trailer at the time but one of my mechanics was and the police escorted us to a weighbridge.
The weighbridge was approached by a downhill section and they weighed the van first (trailer still attached) and then the van and trailer. I was then informed that the train weight was ok but the rear axle was overloaded by 1cwt and I would be reported. I moved a generator and tool box from the back of the van into the race car and the police said it was ok but were still going to book me for being "overloaded"
I pointed out that when they weighed the van that the trailer was actually pushing down on the van back axle because of the downhill angle of the approach road and they said "it makes no difference"
This annoyed me and after I received a summons a while later I was determined to prove them wrong and drove all the way back up to the borders to take measurements /angles and photos to fight the case.
While I was there I spoke to the weighbridge operator who informed me that the weighbridge belonged to Spillers Flour mill for use with their trucks and as the mill was closing down the bridge certificate had been out of date for 6 months ! I took a picture of the certificate that was on the wall and thanked the man.
When the case came to court the prosecution gave their evidence saying how dangerous my "overloaded" vehicle was ! when I was asked to reply I simply said that the weighbridge didn't have a certificate of usage for the date that I was supposed to have committed this motoring offence and showed them the proof, The Judge ? said "case dismissed" and awarded me costs !!!!! while the prosecution stared daggers at the copper that was involved ! As I walked out I had to say something to this young copper that looked about 16 and I said "back on the old push bike for a while then sunshine" I drove all the way back home smiling and kept to the speed limits in case I had been "marked"

[MGDavid]

The definitive data for towing is on your vehicle's VIN plate, this is what will be looked at by VOSA or police if you are stopped so best to check it.
Handbooks can be misleading or wrong, due to the multiplicity of model and specification changes during a vehicle's life.
The VIN plate will look like this (using a Volvo V70 as an example):

2160
3960
1 - 1080
2 - 1130

2160 is the max allowed gross vehicle weight
3960 is the max gross train weight (car plus loaded trailer)
1 - 1080 is the max weight on the car front axle
2 - 1130 is max weight on the car rear axle.

Subtracting 2160 from 3960 gives a max allowable trailer weight of 1800kg.
HTH.

[eclectic]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

The definitive data for towing is on your vehicle's VIN plate, this is what will be looked at by VOSA or police if you are stopped so best to check it.
Handbooks can be misleading or wrong, due to the multiplicity of model and specification changes during a vehicle's life.
The VIN plate will look like this (using a Volvo V70 as an example):

2160
3960
1 - 1080
2 - 1130

2160 is the max allowed gross vehicle weight
3960 is the max gross train weight (car plus loaded trailer)
1 - 1080 is the max weight on the car front axle
2 - 1130 is max weight on the car rear axle.

Subtracting 2160 from 3960 gives a max allowable trailer weight of 1800kg.
HTH.

Hmmn, my Sorento doesn't seem to have a VIN plate anywhere, only a long number 18 letters and numbers altogether, a quick google has not come up with a location for the plate either, I called the local agent, they didn't know anything!

There is no way that the traffic cops will find it, a quick google of the vin number confirms the model, but no other detail.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by eclectic

Hmmn, my Sorento doesn't seem to have a VIN plate anywhere, only a long number 18 letters and numbers altogether, a quick google has not come up with a location for the plate either, I called the local agent, they didn't know anything!

There is no way that the traffic cops will find it, a quick google of the vin number confirms the model, but no other detail.

It *will* have a VIN plate - unless it's a complete ringer, in which case you have a bigger problem than towing a horsebox!
Do either of these help?
http://www.vinnumberlocation.com/kia-sportage.html
http://www.vinnumberlocation.com/kia-rio.html

[Tel 911S]

I have only had my Kia for a few months , so I can still find the V5C log book .

In the " Vehicle Details " part , section " O " , it gives Technical Permissible Maximum Towable Mass of the Trailer .
Which lists it as " Braked " 3000Kg, & " Unbraked " 750Kg .

As this is the UK DVLA document , then that would be the definitive specification for the vehicle , & also easily checkable by any police or VOSA .

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by eclectic

Hmmn, my Sorento doesn't seem to have a VIN plate anywhere, only a long number 18 letters and numbers altogether, a quick google has not come up with a location for the plate either, I called the local agent, they didn't know anything!

There is no way that the traffic cops will find it, a quick google of the vin number confirms the model, but no other detail.

Have you tried looking on the door pillars, could be either side.

[GORDON STREETER]

I would like to add that not all axle and train weights are to a "universal" standard on all vin plates, and some can be confusing to say the least !
If a vehicle looked "beefy" enough normally the law would leave you alone, but in this hi tech world one touch of a screen can get the details instantly !

[Colin McKay]

We bought a Sprinter 316-based motorhome in the belief it could tow 2800kg, which is what the handbook stated, but when I got it home I found it had a lightweight chassis extension supporting the coachbuilt body and was obviously not up to the job. I checked with Autotrail who built it and they confirmed 1200kg max. My PRG enclosed trailer is 1440kg empty (and hasn't moved for 3 years now) the car is 1100kg, add a few wheels & tools and you're very quickly up to 3 tonnes. I shudder when I see similar outfits in the paddock.

And yes, I should have known better

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

We bought a Sprinter 316-based motorhome in the belief it could tow 2800kg, which is what the handbook stated, but when I got it home I found it had a lightweight chassis extension supporting the coachbuilt body and was obviously not up to the job. I checked with Autotrail who built it and they confirmed 1200kg max. My PRG enclosed trailer is 1440kg empty (and hasn't moved for 3 years now) the car is 1100kg, add a few wheels & tools and you're very quickly up to 3 tonnes. I shudder when I see similar outfits in the paddock.

And yes, I should have known better

Motorhomes built on vans have always been on the borderline and some of the smaller ones would almost be illegal with a 5cwt unbraked trailer on the back. ! The worst case I have ever seen was at Snetterton back in the 90s with someone using a VW Derby to tow a huge 4 wheel trailer loaded with a Yank Tank !

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

The worst case I have ever seen was at Snetterton back in the 90s with someone using a VW Derby to tow a huge 4 wheel trailer loaded with a Yank Tank !

I just looked on Wikipedia to see what a VW Derby is... OMFG!

A mate of mine lent his trailer to another mate to tow a Mk2 Ford Escort, he said he was going to use a Ford Falcon as the tow car, but he ended up using another Mk2 Ford Escort and then he rang my mate to ask him to come and help collect the remains...

The worst one I ever saw was a Ford Laser towing another Ford Laser! Ironically, the race Laser was then wrecked at the track, not on the trailer...

[Peter Mallett]

I recall one racer who towed his race Aston Martin with a Bentley. Class.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I recall one racer who towed his race Aston Martin with a Bentley. Class.

Yes he did, I used to see him quite a bit as I was doing the same series, I don't think the tow bar firms listed "Bentley" in their catalogues though !

Before all the "definitive" rules came in my old man (RIP) used to tow a caravan with a Mini loaded with everything including the kitchen sink, it must have been twice the weight of the Mini ! I used to tow my race cars all over the place in the UK and the continent with an Anglia van 4 up and loaded with tools/wheels/spares/fuel and never had a problem !

[VIVA GT]

Initially I towed my Mini Se7en with a 2 lire Viva GT which was fine but then I used a (tuned 1300cc) Mini Traveller. Unfortunately I had to carry my spare wheels & some tools in the race car as there wasn't enough room in the traveller making the trailer load far heavier than what was towing it. I remember getting into an almighty tank slapper on the way home when the tail started wagging the dog, ending up snaking from one side of the road to the other. All I could think of was that when I finally ended up in the ditch all that weight behind was going to barrel into me, so every time it became straight I just stamped on the brakes to help lose momentum. Luckily I managed to get it slowed down enough and it straightened out without any further dramas. I made sure I loaded the race car less after that, fitted a stabiliser to the trailer and took my bloody time whenever I towed it again!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Initially I towed my Mini Se7en with a 2 lire Viva GT which was fine but then I used a (tuned 1300cc) Mini Traveller. Unfortunately I had to carry my spare wheels & some tools in the race car as there wasn't enough room in the traveller making the trailer load far heavier than what was towing it. I remember getting into an almighty tank slapper on the way home when the tail started wagging the dog, ending up snaking from one side of the road to the other. All I could think of was that when I finally ended up in the ditch all that weight behind was going to barrel into me, so every time it became straight I just stamped on the brakes to help lose momentum. Luckily I managed to get it slowed down enough and it straightened out without any further dramas. I made sure I loaded the race car less after that, fitted a stabiliser to the trailer and took my bloody time whenever I towed it again!

Why does none of that surprise me?

[GORDON STREETER]

I used to load up my old Anglia van with scrap and take it to the scrapyard back in the 60/70s, very often after unloading and re'weighing it was almost a ton lighter, it didn't handle too well driving it like that !

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bauble

Why does none of that surprise me?

Sorry Uncle Baub, I promise I won't do it again...