USCC (leave your axe outside)

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

It says too much, too. You probably notice that USCR doesn't include "endurance" in its title. Plus, TV is soooo important. ALMS has seen race durations shrink and shrink (Laguna Seca 6h? 4h? anybody?). I don't expect anything else from USCR. So except in case you consider daytona 24 an endurance race (which it hasn't been for roundabout a decade, wonder why?! Some things are too manufactured & ridiculous to be called "races"), I don't expect there to be more than one endurance race next season (12h of Sebring. No I haven't forgotten about PLM. PLM will die I assume and we'll see a resurrection of the 'Grand Prix of Atlanta'). Actually, continuing on that thought, we might see some endurance shows next season (if at all), not races.

How about north american sports car quasi racing show. But wait. That would include working PR, communication, disseminating information about changes and the future, planning and organizing like grown ups / pros and not like three kids in the sand box where one says, "One day I might do something great" and the other two nod, inviting the world to witness the conversation and call it 'USCR kick off press conference' and then let nothing ever be heard again, miss your schedule, fail to deliver what you've announced to deliver (neither content wise nor anything on time for that matter)...

Until now, it doesn't matter anyways. We don't have more than a name and big claims.

Please, keep your negativity and hate to yourself. We discuss current problems here but there is no need to bash something that doesn't technically exist yet. If you don't believe in USCR, then just don't watch next year! Simple as that.

If you want to address your concerns, then do the survey and hope that USCR turns into something great.

A name is simply that, a name. I don't care what the new series is called, as long as it provides awesome cars and awesome racing.

You also claim that the new series will move away from endurance and you use Laguna as an example. Do people forget that Laguna used to be 2:45 and then 4 and then 6?

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Please, keep your negativity and hate to yourself. We discuss current problems here but there is no need to bash something that doesn't technically exist yet.

Top #1 current problem with USCR is that it's something that doesn't technically exist yet. Because they fail to keep any milestones of their project. The current problem IS their failure.

To address your laguna seca point:
1999: 2h45
2000: 2h45
2001: 2h45
2002: 2h45
2003: 2h45
2004: 4h
2005: 4h
2006: 4h
2007: 4h
2008: 4h
2009: 4h
2010: 6h
2011: 6h
2012: 6h
2013: 4h

The current development is to shorten races:

2011: 12, 10, 6, 4, 2:45 2:45 2:45 2 2 = 44:15 (/9)
2012: 12, 10, 6, 4, 4, 2:45 2:45 2:45 2 2 = 48:15 (/ 10)
2013: 12, 10, 4, 2:45 2:45 2:45 2:45 2:45 2 2 = 43:45 (/ 10)

That's more than this year's laguna less on racing, and even less time spent on track compared to the one-race-less racing season of 2011.

So yeah that's definitely two current points worth discussing.

[Salamus]

Their top priority right now is getting proper regulations for each class. But you cannot put all the blame on the USCR management. There needs to be cooperation among teams and there has been no evidence of that. I am certainly not defending USCR, I think they could have done a better job. However, to give up hope and complain 6 months before the start of a season is a bit premature imo.

You clearly don't like Grand-Am and have absolutely no trust/faith in the future of sportscar racing in NA.

BTW, last time I checked, I don't see "endurance" in American Le Mans Series, just like USCR. Endurance is a part of sportscar racing, ie: Daytona 24, Sebring 12, PLM 10. Not every race can/will be 4+ hours. That is just ludicrous.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

Top #1 current problem with USCR is that it's something that doesn't technically exist yet. Because they fail to keep any milestones of their project. The current problem IS their failure.

To address your laguna seca point:
1999: 2h45
2000: 2h45
2001: 2h45
2002: 2h45
2003: 2h45
2004: 4h
2005: 4h
2006: 4h
2007: 4h
2008: 4h
2009: 4h
2010: 6h
2011: 6h
2012: 6h
2013: 4h

The current development is to shorten races:

2011: 12, 10, 6, 4, 2:45 2:45 2:45 2 2 = 44:15 (/9)
2012: 12, 10, 6, 4, 4, 2:45 2:45 2:45 2 2 = 48:15 (/ 10)
2013: 12, 10, 4, 2:45 2:45 2:45 2:45 2:45 2 2 = 43:45 (/ 10)

That's more than this year's laguna less on racing, and even less time spent on track compared to the one-race-less racing season of 2011.

So yeah that's definitely two current points worth discussing.

Well even if they only run the 3 main races, Daytona, Sebring, Petit, that's 45+ hours of racing. That seems to be a more endurance oriented series when 3 races next year are more racing than 10 races this year.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Their top priority right now is getting proper regulations for each class. But you cannot put all the blame on the USCR management.

Yes I can. Managing the process was their job.

Originally Posted by Salamus

There needs to be cooperation among teams and there has been no evidence of that.

So the USCR management has failed to instill cooperation among teams.

Originally Posted by Salamus

I am certainly not defending USCR

You're ignoring their failure.

Originally Posted by Salamus

, I think they could have done a better job.

That's mildly put.

Originally Posted by Salamus

However, to give up hope and complain 6 months before the start of a season is a bit premature imo.

Well, Ryan Dalziel did sound like this was a pressing matter some 6 weeks ago. Scott A acknowledged the importance by claiming they'd deliver rules roundabout a month ago. Some 6 weeks ago, due to Ryan, he didn't have enough grip on reality to do so (being surprised about real world data of a DP). So you can assume the process started (with some other relation to reality than "wish for the best") roundabout Ryan's interview. A process that Scott A optimistically guessed to take roundabout three months. So if it's about mid august by the time we see regs, we'll all have been lucky.

Originally Posted by Salamus

You clearly don't like Grand-Am

I don't like the mindset, I don't care enough about it aside of that.
Their mindset though, IMHO, is the poison that might kill the series and a few drivers in between.

Originally Posted by Salamus

and have absolutely no trust/faith in the future of sportscar racing in NA.

I don't have trust / faith in managers who make big claims, deliver nothing on time, and act like amateurs working out their virgin series, just without the magic that new things bring.

Originally Posted by Salamus

BTW, last time I checked, I don't see "endurance" in American Le Mans Series, just like USCR.

Yeah right. And as you can see, the ALMS continues cutting back. Disgusting.

Originally Posted by Salamus

Endurance is a part of sportscar racing, ie: Daytona 24, Sebring 12, PLM 10.

Daytona 24 needs to reestablish itself as a sports car race first. I acknowledge your point though. Now that you've enumerated all endurance races in north america though, let's move on to the rest of sportscar racing, of which endurance is no part, which are in the majority.

Originally Posted by Salamus

Not every race can/will be 4+ hours. That is just ludicrous.

Other than because Salamus says so, why? Good that the WEC thinks otherwise...

[Salamus]

What is a series without teams and what are teams without a series? USCR and the teams have to cooperate. That is why you cannot put all the blame on USCR. I guarantee you the people in USCR didn't expect to deal with a bunch of babies who are unwilling to spend some extra money.

I don't understand your concern with the distances of races. The majority of races has always been 2:45 hours. I don't know where you got the idea that every race has to be an endurance race. With a 24, 12, and 10 hour race, the amount of hours will increase dramatically for every team. Which also increases cost due to tires, fuel, maintenance of cars, etc.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Salamus

What is a series without teams and what are teams without a series? USCR and the teams have to cooperate. That is why you cannot put all the blame on USCR. I guarantee you the people in USCR didn't expect to deal with a bunch of babies who are unwilling to spend some extra money.

Well, they should have known their teams, eh? Don't announce a merger until it's been done.

Originally Posted by Salamus

I don't understand your concern with the distances of races. The majority of races has always been 2:45 hours. I don't know where you got the idea that every race has to be an endurance race.

Not sure about the "has to be", but in my mind, the Le Mans heritage isn't sports car racing per se, but sports car endurance racing. Now, obviously, the LM tie gets weakened by getting rid of the "LM" from your name. USCR clearly says "sports car racing", not "endurance racing". And the races get shorter and shorter. Which is why IMHO "North american endurance championship/trophy/cup" is not a fitting name for the series. You know, the proposition rwindle has made to which I replied.

Originally Posted by Salamus

With a 24, 12, and 10 hour race, the amount of hours will increase dramatically for every team. Which also increases cost due to tires, fuel, maintenance of cars, etc.

I thought now that GA vs. ALMS is gone, we're all winners, random mega corps will invest into the series and there'll be a much higher ROI for everybody involved, allowing teams to do more... oh wait. Gotta have the appearance of professional management to lure in big bucks. D'oh!

[Scooter185]

Theres also the 6 hours at the Glen

6 hours ya know being the standard length of a WEC race.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Salamus

What is a series without teams and what are teams without a series? USCR and the teams have to cooperate. That is why you cannot put all the blame on USCR. I guarantee you the people in USCR didn't expect to deal with a bunch of babies who are unwilling to spend some extra money.

Who makes the rules, the owners or the teams?

I know I may not have been paying attention as much lately, but did the Grand Am owners refuse to cooperate for some testing or something?

[Maelochs]

Rumor has it that the Rolex team owners refused to do anything with DPs, saying they were fine as is, ansd all other classes should adapt to fit in behind DPs as the top class.

DP owners refused to spend any money upgrading DPs (Mike Shank being one of the most vocal supposedly; there’s some wicked karma for you) even though P2s and PCs are faster. Considering there as many P2 and PC teams/cars as DPs, and DPs can barely keep ahead of GTs, this is obviously not a workable prospect.

As rumors go, this one is pretty good, as it is supported by Peter Barron and Ryan Dalziel, as well as whatever else has leaked out from “insider sources” and of course, the lack of progress with 2014 rules and regs.

[freeballin]

Funny that you use rumors of rumors about what DP owners allegedly or maybe said yet the one DP owner on record has said the complete opposite.

Weird.

I'm not much for typing manifestos for something that doesn't affect the quality of my being so I will just attend some races next year and enjoy myself. Bring on 2014!!

[barumba]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Rumor has it that the Rolex team owners refused to do anything with DPs, saying they were fine as is, ansd all other classes should adapt to fit in behind DPs as the top class.

DP owners refused to spend any money upgrading DPs (Mike Shank being one of the most vocal supposedly; there’s some wicked karma for you) even though P2s and PCs are faster. Considering there as many P2 and PC teams/cars as DPs, and DPs can barely keep ahead of GTs, this is obviously not a workable prospect.

As rumors go, this one is pretty good, as it is supported by Peter Barron and Ryan Dalziel, as well as whatever else has leaked out from “insider sources” and of course, the lack of progress with 2014 rules and regs.

Wouldn't it be ironic, as the winners of the Enduro's in NA ask for an invite to the 24 Le Mans in 2014. Any DP's that qualify and make it into the 24 would get absolutely stampeded by the LMP1's and 2's, and likely some of the GTE's. That would make for some very entertaining racing.

[Maelochs]

Freeballin in Ncrdbl back from his ban for saying stuff exactly like he did there.

Here is some actual fact showing what his post is worth:

Peter: The series technical committee invited owners to an open forum to suggest ideas on how they could close the gap between Daytona Prototype and LMP2 cars. To be honest I felt like I was on an island in that meeting. Many of the owners were stating the Daytona Prototype formula is perfect and everybody else should be slowed down. I was strongly in favour of working on these cars to make the DP faster so you could have the balance of all five classes intact and not have to alter the GTE class.

Considering the announcement was made nine months ago, I’m pretty amazed at the conversations that are still taking place. From my understanding, they still have not had an LMP2 chassis inside the wind tunnel and do not have plans to do that until July. I’ve offered suggestions to get all the easy decisions out of the way such as pit rules, paddock set-up and the simple decisions that we need to have take place, but nothing yet and no answers. One would hope that they have a timeline and have all these things under control.
(http://starworksmotorsport.com/peter...e-rolex-round/)

There is a little basis for the "rumor": Peter Baron saying it himself in a Starworks press release.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

https://twitter.com/jvbraun/status/352620594631675904
"LMP2 in USCR will be left pretty much alone (new tire, Continental) but thats it from reliable source"

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Ginaro Zukovsky

https://twitter.com/jvbraun/status/352620594631675904
"LMP2 in USCR will be left pretty much alone (new tire, Continental) but thats it from reliable source"

Expecting severe humiliation of DP teams in the near future if this turns out fo be true and they STILL don't want to speed up their cars.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Expecting severe humiliation of DP teams in the near future if this turns out fo be true and they STILL don't want to speed up their cars.

That is fine by the fans! Maybe a good year of humiliation will alter their opinions.

DP

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by dxk1

That is fine by the fans! Maybe a good year of humiliation will alter their opinions.

DP

Would be fine by me too.

[Maelochs]

That would be almost the best possible outcome. Let them all race as they are ...

Unfortunately I wouldn't get a chance to see Scott Pruett race head-to-head with the ALMs P2 drivers .... but I would get to see him race on even terms with the Corvettes and Ferraris.

[PointDSM]

Wasn't the P2-spec Continental tire proven to be even faster than the Michelin? They should announce this on Friday if true, then I can easily see teams announcing P2 setups in the next month.

P2 = LMP1
DP/LMPC = LMP2
GTE = GTE
GTD/GX = GT

Best possible scenario may actually happen!

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

Wasn't the P2-spec Continental tire proven to be even faster than the Michelin?

That doesn't seem to be true. However, I could be wrong.

DK

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Let them all race as they are ...

Exactly what I said. We are in agreement. After a season of racing in all different conditions and on different tracks in their current configurations, then the facts will be on the table. Right now, everything is only speculation and it is pretty late in the game to start making major changes to specs, IMO.

If the DP's want to race at Le Mans, I think there is zero chance they will get the ACO to slow all the other classes down for the benefit of the DP's.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by dxk1

That doesn't seem to be true. However, I could be wrong.

DK

It's faster than the Michelin LMPC tire, but most likely slower than the full LMP2 tires that Michelin and Dunlop build.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Rumor has it that the Rolex team owners refused to do anything with DPs, saying they were fine as is, ansd all other classes should adapt to fit in behind DPs as the top class.

DP owners refused to spend any money upgrading DPs (Mike Shank being one of the most vocal supposedly; there’s some wicked karma for you) even though P2s and PCs are faster. Considering there as many P2 and PC teams/cars as DPs, and DPs can barely keep ahead of GTs, this is obviously not a workable prospect.

As rumors go, this one is pretty good, as it is supported by Peter Barron and Ryan Dalziel, as well as whatever else has leaked out from “insider sources” and of course, the lack of progress with 2014 rules and regs.

I appreciate the resistance, the grandstanding and the politicking. My point was simple... to what degree has USCR management asked to start testing these cars, and modifying them to work this out? The series ultimately makes the rules, and if they can one day get around to doing actual testing, of real cars.. maybe they can find some cost effective solutions... or at least as cost effective as possible. Management makes the rules, start being leaders. Given this mess they've created... just get on with it and TELL the owners what they need to do, after figuring out how to achieve whatever your goals are. As I've oft repeated, it would have made sense to run a DP in P2 all year for the ALMS. Open rules, exhibition, just figure out how to make it work, at ALL the tracks.

Or, sell Delta Wings at a discount to all.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

That would be almost the best possible outcome. Let them all race as they are ...

Unfortunately I wouldn't get a chance to see Scott Pruett race head-to-head with the ALMs P2 drivers .... but I would get to see him race on even terms with the Corvettes and Ferraris.

If this happens, Ganassi will probably buy a P2.

[freeballin]

Originally Posted by Ginaro Zukovsky

https://twitter.com/jvbraun/status/352620594631675904
"LMP2 in USCR will be left pretty much alone (new tire, Continental) but thats it from reliable source"

Braun said he spoke to someone he respects at Le Mans which is probably where this comes from.

That or he's now a NASCAR shill!!!!

For the record the Continental tires on the LMPCs which are DP tires have been faster than the Michelins from last year. Not rumor. Fact.

So ALMS GT is being left alone, P2 is being left alone, LMPC is being left alone, and IMSA runs the show...yet members of the preferred forum would rather build strawmen than accept reality. Okay then...