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Old 24 Sep 2013, 16:24 (Ref:3308812)   #51
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I'm enjoying this thread. I think we are having some meaningful exchanges here and some strong disagreement. That makes for the best threads.

Some posters log on here to douse Vettel with treacle and are astonished that some of their fellow posters don't share their enthusiasm. Others get manifestly emotional when I addressed Vettel as 'very good' rather than 'great'. Those are reactions that are very strange to me.

I've liked drivers in the past that others have disparaged and that never fazed me. Some Seb fans on here though get quite distraught when their man gets a bit of noise sent in their direction! All part of forum life I guess.
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 18:02 (Ref:3308836)   #52
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Unless you are talking about something THEY are talking about, some folk who should know better will often complain!

Either way its discussion, but like the FIA president one, it will no doubt get buried to talk about who is driving for Force INdia next year and other whimsical nonsense!!

I think its hilarious, and it splits opinion, some hate it, some love it, which is what forums should be all about
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 20:27 (Ref:3308896)   #53
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Some people here, though, aren't Vettel fans as such, but think booing is poor form. I don't think very rude chants at football matches are an excuse for this, though.
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 22:08 (Ref:3308942)   #54
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Some people here, though, aren't Vettel fans as such, but think booing is poor form. I don't think very rude chants at football matches are an excuse for this, though.
I am not fan of any one driver... Mark Webber I like a lot because he appears as a very straight shooter and I will miss him..

Kimi is also from that same fold in my mind.. To Boo the winner of any contest is plain bad form, rude and unsporting ..

At times in this forum I read things like " I hate such and such" or "he is useless " Written by people that don't know what that person may be like when not in front of a camera for the 1,000 time, or just don't have a clue ..

Sebastian Vettel is doing a job and what's more he is bloody good at it ...

To pay that kind of money to go and Boo the winner is nothing short of idiotic and I believe has nothing to do with real fans of motor racing..
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 22:09 (Ref:3308944)   #55
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At last a voice of reason. I was beginning to think it was just me.
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 22:19 (Ref:3308949)   #56
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Booing is a form of protest that has been in sport since it was started.

Most sport is seen as entertainment. Why? Because people pay to go and watch it either live or on telly. Some think they are watching pure sport, most want to see action, and be entertained. Even fewer want to be seen sadly, or thankfully.

Just like football, wrestling, boxing or rugby etc etc, and booing there doesn't get treated with pompous indignation and derision. It is accepted as a part of the show. The people involved might not like it, who would, but it is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

Watch the Hunt vs Lauda thing, they don't let Hunt back on the grid in 76, the crowd boo, throw stuff on the track, buying McLaren enough time to repair the car, he comes on and wins the race, 80'000 go home happy and love F1. It's wrong yes, but it's part of sport and totally spontaneous. Has it happened loads of times since?

Booing a guy and team who are utterly dominating the sport is different, but it is a response to what people are paying for and is therefore a valid response from clients, not sponsors and gladragging suckers, but punters. They have never done it much before have they? Other than when Schumacher was being manipulated into wins by Todt. SO this is new, and you need to ask why?

I think a few folk need to get off their gentleman's sport pedestal and realise that for most punters and fans this is a way to voice displeasure. The more it's in the press, hey the more folk will do it.

I don't dislike Seb, he is a great bloke, just doing his job. But he is boring, the races are boring, and it has been that way for years and people are sick of it, this is the result. Like it or not. Snobbish rubbish about not being fans is simply not understanding why most people watch not just F1 but any sport these days.
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 22:29 (Ref:3308957)   #57
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Some of us prefer to rise above the loutish behaviour of the proletariat. Is that so wrong?
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 00:50 (Ref:3309002)   #58
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To pay that kind of money to go and Boo the winner is nothing short of idiotic and I believe has nothing to do with real fans of motor racing..
So anybody who thinks it's ok to boo Vettel is not a real fan like you!

Maybe they aren't "fans" as you say, as a proper "Fan-atic" blindly follows something or somebody with uncritical enthusiasm.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 00:56 (Ref:3309005)   #59
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I am not fan of any one driver... Mark Webber I like a lot because he appears as a very straight shooter and I will miss him..

Kimi is also from that same fold in my mind.. To Boo the winner of any contest is plain bad form, rude and unsporting ..

At times in this forum I read things like " I hate such and such" or "he is useless " Written by people that don't know what that person may be like when not in front of a camera for the 1,000 time, or just don't have a clue ..

Sebastian Vettel is doing a job and what's more he is bloody good at it ...

To pay that kind of money to go and Boo the winner is nothing short of idiotic and I believe has nothing to do with real fans of motor racing..
Good points Jeremy.

Sometimes you just have to wonder about how unbalanced many people are?

You have to wonder what prospective multinational sponsors make of this behaviour!
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 01:07 (Ref:3309006)   #60
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So anybody who thinks it's ok to boo Vettel is not a real fan like you!

Maybe they aren't "fans" as you say, as a proper "Fan-atic" blindly follows something or somebody with uncritical enthusiasm.
Exactly.

It is only booing. A form of peaceful protest. Well, kind of. No bigee. It's proportional to what Vettel himself instigated when he turned over Webber.

It's not something I do but I don't get into a lather over it either.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 01:31 (Ref:3309016)   #61
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Some of us prefer to rise above the loutish behaviour of the proletariat. Is that so wrong?
Well, that's what you should expect when you let these peasants come to watch this stiff upper lip jolly good show.
Lets beat them back to the fields and coal mines with our crochet bats!


Seriously though, I feel the booing is tremendously more entertaining than the racing has been of late.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 01:40 (Ref:3309019)   #62
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Horner telling it as it is. Vettel is a genuine guy, and I imagine he is having a little difficulty understanding the mindset of those who insist on booing him.

However, as he matures and becomes even more successful I expect he will learn to revel in it and satisfy himself with the knowledge that he is a far better human being than they are.
It'll only make him stronger.

As opposed to other drivers who always have the media and the fans over-hyping their achievements and making excuses when they fail.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 07:31 (Ref:3309070)   #63
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Turkey 2010 was the point where I lost the little bit of respect I had for Vettel. He deliberately moved into Webber, and cost Webber the win. Then motioned to the crowd, and the world, that Webber is crazy. He was not his fault, it was Webber's crazy behaviour that caused the crash is what I read from this sign language.

But then post race he said this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PDsKF9IRI8

"All of a sudden I lost the car"??? Yeah.. right. What a lying f____r. Trying to weasel his way out of it by feeding the media a load of (red) bull manure! Look at his facial expressions, body language says it all.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 08:26 (Ref:3309101)   #64
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Seriously though, I feel the booing is tremendously more entertaining than the racing has been of late.
In the spirit of fairness to all sides of the argument, you do have a point there.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 08:48 (Ref:3309106)   #65
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Is this now the most removed from reality thread in F1?

Seems there are people here with enough time on their hands to worry about this a whole lot more than Vettel or Horner are doing.
I seriously agree. Let's all get lives, eh?
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 09:46 (Ref:3309135)   #66
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Perhaps they're booing Sebby and the Automatons because he, and Red Bull happen to be the focal point of a lot of disenchantment with F1 in general? -
  • Races dominated by excessive tyre management.
  • Racing drivers having to say, "I can't go any slower!"
  • Cars that are too reliable.
  • Races where the winner is almost a forgone conclusion.
  • Races where drivers aren't allowed to be racing drivers because if they overtake without asking politely they have to give back the place.
  • Races where you can watch the first few laps and the last few laps and for the rest you may as well make the Sunday dinner.
  • So many safety features that most 'crashes' are little more than fender benders and it wouldn't be out of place to expect the drivers to exchange insurance details.
  • Racing that is plain boring and has to be livened up using artificial means such as DRS zones.

Perhaps railing at the boy wonder (and not buying tickets - c.f. Silverstone) is the only way left for the impotent proletariat to express their feelings?
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 09:53 (Ref:3309137)   #67
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I seriously agree. Let's all get lives, eh?
Making a few brief remarks doesn't occupy much of my life.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 10:16 (Ref:3309139)   #68
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Sure, I accept that, but.......

..... no. I'm going to go and use the time in some other way.......
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 10:50 (Ref:3309150)   #69
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It's interesting from a brand viewpoint as Red Bull Racing has gone from the perception of a party, relaxed, fun loving image to hard nosed, serious and win at all costs. Is this where their target market sees them?

Can you be too successful?
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 11:08 (Ref:3309157)   #70
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It's interesting from a brand viewpoint as Red Bull Racing has gone from the perception of a party, relaxed, fun loving image to hard nosed, serious and win at all costs. Is this where their target market sees them?

Can you be too successful?
They try hard to promote that image with their various festivals within and without motorsport. I remember when they came on the scene comparisons were drawn between them and Jordan but that didn't quite work. Jordan were instinctively the play hard, work hard team, RBR cultivated that image but it always had a commercial marketing whiz to it. They partied to promote whereas Jordan did it because they wanted to.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 11:09 (Ref:3309158)   #71
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I honestly don't believe Red Bull will be concerned. F1 fans, even casual ones, are a pretty select group and it is really only that group that is aware of the booing. The wider consumer market sees Red Bull everywhere they might look in motorsport and extreme sports, and those who take a slight interest see Red Bull winning. That's really all that matters. A winning brand associated with some of the most extreme sports out there, classic aspirational stuff for your average punter.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 14:24 (Ref:3309233)   #72
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What a poor, delicate little flower.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 14:27 (Ref:3309235)   #73
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I'm no Vettel fan, but I would never boo someone in the way he is getting treated. It's psychologically damaging (perhaps the booers are deliberately trying to injure him in that way - what nice people they must be), esp. to someone of Vettel's age (mid 20's). We have enough news stories of people being bullied (yes, this is a form of bullying) and taking drastic steps, and whilst that would be far from Vettel's mind, however much someone earns, however pleasant their life may be, they can be hurt by bullying. It's insidious. At first you brush it off, but it creeps in, and slowly starts affecting you subconsciously. For those of you with children, imagine them playing their sport, and at the end of the game or match or race, they get boo'ed, even when they have done really well. Every time.

Is that really a good thing? For children of any age?

Sorry, booing is not a form of peaceful protest. It's a nasty unpleasant act that anyway with any shred of decency would avoid like the plague.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 14:31 (Ref:3309236)   #74
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For those of you with children, imagine them playing their sport, and at the end of the game or match or race, they get boo'ed, even when they have done really well. Every time.

Is that really a good thing? For children of any age?
you just nailed it right there. booing someone during their trophy presentation is the opposite of everything that sport stands for.
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 14:37 (Ref:3309238)   #75
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I'm no Vettel fan, but I would never boo someone in the way he is getting treated. It's psychologically damaging (perhaps the booers are deliberately trying to injure him in that way - what nice people they must be), esp. to someone of Vettel's age (mid 20's). We have enough news stories of people being bullied (yes, this is a form of bullying) and taking drastic steps, and whilst that would be far from Vettel's mind, however much someone earns, however pleasant their life may be, they can be hurt by bullying. It's insidious. At first you brush it off, but it creeps in, and slowly starts affecting you subconsciously. For those of you with children, imagine them playing their sport, and at the end of the game or match or race, they get boo'ed, even when they have done really well. Every time.

Is that really a good thing? For children of any age?

Sorry, booing is not a form of peaceful protest. It's a nasty unpleasant act that anyway with any shred of decency would avoid like the plague.
Nobody is booing a child ffs.

Calm down, it will go away eventually.
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