Bathurst short track

[Jeff 8]

Originally Posted by racer69

Any Bathurst 'short' track will be viewed in the same way as the modern Nurburgring or the Bugatti circuit at Le Mans...

That's much better than the modern Hockenheim, where the long track was bulldozed and trees planted, history lost!

Jeff

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by racer69

Any Bathurst 'short' track will be viewed in the same way as the modern Nurburgring or the Bugatti circuit at Le Mans...

Sure - that'll be the case 100% but both of those tracks that you mention get a HUGE amount of use - national and international races (including a Moto GP round at Bugatti I think & of course F1 at the 'ring).

Bathurst short circuit would still need road closures to work I guess unless the residents can access via the secondary roads around the outside of the existing circuit or there is a plan for access under the new layout for example so there are still some limitations on its use at a casual glance.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Monaro

I would prefer to see it extend to the end of mountain straight.

[Monaro]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I would prefer to see it extend to the end of mountain straight.

The proposed track from Mt Straight has to enter halve way up as the properties above the car park are are not owned by council.The new track runs along the edge of councils land.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I think you owe some one an apology David. it appears there has been short track talk about bathurst this week in the media.

I guess Just because someone drives a race car, doesnt mean they know anything, where as just because someone doesnt drive a race car doesnt mean there opinion or questions should be ignored.

An apology! For what?

Jeff said there has been a lot of talk about this among the bike guys. Two posts prior to your rant, i mentioned that i have very little connection with motorcycle racing but i have heard nothing amongst the car guys. I still haven't seen anything other than what appeared on this forum. It wouldn't be the first time that a news story started life as a forum thread.

Your second pargraph is arguing against statements i have never made and making hugely false assumptions. Show me where it says that just because someone doesnt drive a race car doesnt mean there opinion or questions should be ignored. You can't show me, because i have never said anything that dumb.

When i said that i am as much involved in the sport as an amateur can be i was in no way suggesting that because i am a competitor i know it all! Another ridiculous suggestion. As a matter of fact, i was referring to the fact that my involvement in the sport is in a lot more capacities than just being a driver, therefore i know a lot more people in the sport than my fellow competitors and i receive a lot more information than my fellow competitors and this proposed short track at Bathurst isn't being discussed by any club i am a member of or any committee i sit on, so my original point remains.

As for my tirade against the track itself, that's purely my opinion.

[kramer]

I remember talk of the short track in the 1970s.

NSW will be down to just two permanent circuit's in the next couple of years. A third track would be fantastic, whether for club meeting's or big one's.

Otherwise, where is the next lot of V8 racer's going to come from?


Kramer

[B24]

Originally Posted by Phase3

There was a map floating around in one of the mags at one stage, but that was a few years ago now. The idea at the time I believe was to lure the ALMS cars to run on the "Short Track" as thought had it their clearance woulldn't allow them to run over the top. I think it was never really more than an idea...

It is a great idea and Im sure there was a meeting about the ALMS running at Mount P.
I doubt there is an issue with running the cars over the full track as they cannot be any different in height and dimension to the Molser that ran in the 24hr.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by kramer

Otherwise, where is the next lot of V8 racer's going to come from?

Queensland & Victoria, kinda like now

[B24]

The new track looks great and great to see a bike friendly circuit put forward as the biking community deserve this.
It would be great to have something done at Bathurst for the sake of a new circuit for everyone to enjoy but I think there will be a sticking point with residents. It's very close to to town with people currently putting up with the noise of cars for 4 major events as well as many half track events throughout the year. To build a new track and have it used 300 days a year (or the likes) could be a bit much for locals.
This issue of noise may have something to do with the current arrangement. Can anyone shed light on my theory of noise at Mount P?

Cheers

[B24]

Just on the case you do win lotto and build a track, I have been informed it cost $4mil per km then you will need to add on your facilities.
I guess the cheaper way is to buy the machinery and employ a team from china then build it yourself After your finished building, go win few govt contracts for road works to pay for your investment. It would be a lot quicker than waiting for an ROI from circuit hire..

[louonline]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Jeff, are you pushing a barrow here?

In this thread you ask if anyone knows anything about it, in another thread you described it as "much talked about".

I believe that i am as much involved in the sport as any amateur can be and this forum is the only place i've ever heard it mentioned.

I've already gone on record suggesting it is one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard. Imagine entering a meeting and towing a car all the way to Bathurst, only to run around pit straight and the paddock.

Bathurst without that exhilerating ride across the top of the mountain is like eating a cone with no ice cream, going to a music festival and leaving before the headline act, buying a famous race car and sealing it in an air tight vault, dating a girl who wears a chastity belt, seriously why would you bother???

_____________________________________
I agree with you David. If they get the money it should be spent on the Mount not building a "Kiddies Track" to accommodate the bike( not that I have anything against bikes.).

To date as far as I know, the only "expert" opinion they've had is form one Allen Cunnynham (spelling) a local ex motor bike racer.

Below is a letter I sent to all the Councillors and the local MP.

I woould appreciate the views and constructive suggestions of the posters here.

[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Dear Councillor,[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Whilst I’m very pleased that money looks like been made available to spend on Mount Panorama, I am not keen on seeing it cut up by putting in a second track.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']What makes and sets apart Mount Panorama from other circuits, is the “mount”.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Without “The Cutting”, “Skyline” and the “Esses”, its just another track![/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']As I understand it the super bike, open wheelers etc., won’t race here because it is considered dangerous/unsafe due to the lack of safety run-offs in certain parts of the track.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']In my opinion the available funds should be spent on bringing the track up to the required safety level rather than butchering it by putting in another track and cutting out the uniqueness of Mount Panorama.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']It just won’t be The Mount without the mount.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']I mean there is nothing more exhilarating than watching the cars (or bike) accelerating up Mountain Straight, weave their way through The Cutting, swoop across Skyline and winding their way down through the Esses before flying down Con Rod Straight![/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']It just won’t be The Mount without these sections.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Compared to the current track, any alternative track put there will be dubbed the “kiddies track” and detract from the uniqueness of The Mount.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Don’t destroy the character of The Mount, spend the money on the existing track to bring it up to a safety level that’s acceptable to all so when a driver/rider says, “I raced at The Mount”, he really raced at The Mount, not the “kiddies track”.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']You can’t be “King Of The Mountain” if you didn’t swoop across the summit!! [/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']As far as I know, so far you have only consulted with the motor bike fraternity, perhaps you should canvass the opinion of other motor sports groups and most of all the FANS and please have another think where and how you spend this money and set your sights high.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] Don’t settle for just catering for a limited group, there is no reason why one of the top racing circuits in the world should not be able to attract the pinnacle of all motor racing in the world, up to and including Formula One. [/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Perhaps I’m dreaming, but I’m sure there’s lots of racing drivers and motor sports fans dreaming with me [/FONT]J[FONT='Times New Roman','serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Kind regards,[/FONT]
Lou Xxxxxxxxx

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by B24

The new track looks great and great to see a bike friendly circuit put forward as the biking community deserve this.
It would be great to have something done at Bathurst for the sake of a new circuit for everyone to enjoy but I think there will be a sticking point with residents. It's very close to to town with people currently putting up with the noise of cars for 4 major events as well as many half track events throughout the year. To build a new track and have it used 300 days a year (or the likes) could be a bit much for locals.
This issue of noise may have something to do with the current arrangement. Can anyone shed light on my theory of noise at Mount P?

Cheers

That's what I was thinking was the noise issue. I'm sure the locals are more than happy with a few big events every year, but having the place run all year might be a bit much. Dunno.

I guess if they build that circuit than all well and good to have it as an additional facility, but for me Bathurst is all about the mountain. The bottom part to me just exists solely to loop you around back up the mountain again, nothing more. Oh, and a place to dump the pitlane as well.

[JABWOA]

The last I heard about the short track was about 10 years ago, with the track utilising the camp ground with a Hockenhiem style infield - turns left half way up mountain, squigles in the infield before another left back on to Conrod just prior to the chase. Saw at least one track map but this was just before they turned the in field section into the spectator campground.

Why not do it? All that money into the pit complex that just sits there gathering cobwebs (unless it's utilised otherwise like Albert Park's pit complex is?)

[louonline]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

The last I heard about the short track was about 10 years ago, with the track utilising the camp ground with a Hockenhiem style infield - turns left half way up mountain, squigles in the infield before another left back on to Conrod just prior to the chase. Saw at least one track map but this was just before they turned the in field section into the spectator campground.

Why not do it? All that money into the pit complex that just sits there gathering cobwebs (unless it's utilised otherwise like Albert Park's pit complex is?)

Assuming they get this money from the government, what would you rather see, the money spent cutting the 'heart' ot of the Mount by putting in a "kiddies track" or spending the money on bringing the current circuit up to a level that ANYTHING can race on it, from bikes to F1?

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by louonline

Assuming they get this money from the government, what would you rather see, the money spent cutting the 'heart' ot of the Mount by putting in a "kiddies track" or spending the money on bringing the current circuit up to a level that ANYTHING can race on it, from bikes to F1?

Can we leave F1 out of it.

[Jeff 8]

Originally Posted by louonline

Assuming they get this money from the government, what would you rather see, the money spent cutting the 'heart' ot of the Mount by putting in a "kiddies track" or spending the money on bringing the current circuit up to a level that ANYTHING can race on it, from bikes to F1?

Do you mean Tilke-ize Mount Panorama?

The short track should not take anything away from the big circuit, but could add a lot more.

Jeff

[louonline]

Originally Posted by Jeff 8

Do you mean Tilke-ize Mount Panorama?

The short track should not take anything away from the big circuit, but could add a lot more.

Jeff

If it was any other track I would agree with you.

But to put a "kiddies track" on the iconic Mount is an insult to it's spirit.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Can we leave F1 out of it.

Why?

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by louonline

Why?

I would have thought that was obvious Lou. To make the mountain safe enough for F1 would completely destroy it.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by sizzle

I would have thought that was obvious Lou. To make the mountain safe enough for F1 would completely destroy it.

Not that I am a fan of F1, what in your opinion would be required to make it 'safe' for F1?

I should state that I would not condone the altering of the track itself in any way but I don't see anything done to the peripherals such as pushing back concrete wall, putting in more run-offs/sand traps etc. destroying the character of the Mount.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by louonline

Not that I am a fan of F1, what in your opinion would be required to make it 'safe' for F1?

I should state that I would not condone the altering of the track itself in any way but I don't see anything done to the peripherals such as pushing back concrete wall, putting in more run-offs/sand traps etc. destroying the character of the Mount.

Most of the top of the mountain would disappear for run off. Hell would see the crowd back further.The hump on Mountain straight will be an issue. The climb up the mountain doesn't have anywhere to constuct runoff without removing the complete top of the hill. The crowd would be so far back on the run across the top it would be better to stay home and watch on TV. The run from Skyline to Forest Elbow would be so emasculated because of the elevation changes it would not be the same. The rise on Conrod would be an issue, the chase would be a death trap in it current form. Murrays would have runoff back through half the merchandise area.

The thought to make it suitable for F1 is admirable but it is not feasible. Not if you want to retain the character anyway.

[mtpanorama]

I cant see why people a whinging that Mount Panorama will loose its "character" by building a second track. The original track will still be there and not changed. It has already been changed a couple of times anyway.
What they a looking at doing will be a great addition to motorsport in NSW with the impeding closure of OP. It might give us racers another circuit to compete on which can only be a good thing.
I cant belive people are complaining that we might actually get another race track.!!!!!!!!!!!

[louonline]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

I cant see why people a whinging that Mount Panorama will loose its "character" by building a second track. The original track will still be there and not changed. It has already been changed a couple of times anyway.
What they a looking at doing will be a great addition to motorsport in NSW with the impeding closure of OP. It might give us racers another circuit to compete on which can only be a good thing.
I cant belive people are complaining that we might actually get another race track.!!!!!!!!!!!

Considering your nic is 'mtpanorama' and your slogan is "best race track in the world", your post is very surprising!

One would have thought that you of all people would want to see the Mount remain THE MOUNT not the mount and the 'kiddies track'.

If I was a racer and stated that I raced at the Mount, I wouldn't want to be asked, "which track, the REAL mount or the little track?

To say that putting in another track would not detract from the character of the iconic Mount is ludicrous.

We don't need another track we just need the existing track made suitable for a greater viriety of racers.

And mate I'm not whinging, I just want to see "the best race track in the world" attract the best of motor sport in the world so please have another think, don't just accept anything just because the money may be made available. Think big and keep it the best race track in the world!

[louonline]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Most of the top of the mountain would disappear for run off. Hell would see the crowd back further.The hump on Mountain straight will be an issue. The climb up the mountain doesn't have anywhere to constuct runoff without removing the complete top of the hill. The crowd would be so far back on the run across the top it would be better to stay home and watch on TV. The run from Skyline to Forest Elbow would be so emasculated because of the elevation changes it would not be the same. The rise on Conrod would be an issue, the chase would be a death trap in it current form. Murrays would have runoff back through half the merchandise area.

The thought to make it suitable for F1 is admirable but it is not feasible. Not if you want to retain the character anyway.

Wow sizzle, you sure paint a gloomy picture!
Not that it matters to me but having seen some of the street circuits that F1 has raced on I still don't think it beyond the realms of possibility to accommodate them if they truly wanted to take on the challange to be "King of the Mount".

Any way its all academic as I don't see F1 making the trip to the Mount any time soon but we should be able to accommodate just about anyone else.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Lou, you fail to realise that the current standards for a top level FIA track preclude blind corners, blind crests and reducing radius corners. There are also minimum runoff areas for corners, these are determined by the speed of the corner. Quite simply, it is virtually impossible to bring Bathurst up to the highest FIA standard and to do so would emasculate the place horribly, to the point of it being unrecognisable.