F1 is.....

[angst]

....Cr*p. That is the conclusion I have slowly (far too slowly) come to. Ever since the thread about why we watch I have been questioning my reasons, and I have come to the conclusion that it is not the sport I started watching all those years ago.
When I started watching cars overtook each other, on the track (can you believe this is possible). Even in a cr*p car you could watch a driver working and have a fair idea of how good he was. You knew that what the car was doing was down to the driver (no fly by wire then) and you knew when somone was cheating because the stewards could actually police the regulations. It was possible for a driver to overcome the car and outrace a lesser driver in a better car. Drivers had to think their way through a race rather than drive as quick as they could and come in for a pitstop when the team had decided. It wasn't viewed as acceptable to push (or attempt to push) a rival off the track in order to win a WDC.
So my viewing habits are going to change. Whereas up to now I have avidly made time for the Grands Prix and watched, say, CART if it happened to be on I will now be reversing that trend. If I want a soap opera I will watch Coronation Street. When the FIA give me F1 motor racing then I will begin to watch F1 again.
Basically I'm sick of watching 1 1/2 hours of cars going round and round and ending up thinking 'Oh, was that it then?'

[Cameron]

I know how you feel.

[Liz]

Well it can be exciting or it can be safe. Now it is so safe that it is no longer exciting. But now when people get killed, people are surprised.

Go back to the cars they drove when it used to be fun to watch, and we'll go back to dead pilots every year. Life's a tradeoff.

Or you could just watch ALMS or CART like the rest of us.

[LYM]

All major sports behave in that way angst. If CART gets popular in Europe, they be as predictable as F1 too-eventually.

Or maybe it just becos one of you least favourite drivers has won the WDC? Don't let that little displeasure kill off your passion for F1. Look back the history and have faith for the future.

[gomick]

never going to be as good as watching a bike race at phillip island. i am an f1 race fan, but i thought adelaide was a better track than melbourne and it just goes to show that money rules this boring racing category......maybe i am becoming a tired f1 fan - need mark webber to get me enthused again.

Originally posted by angst
Basically I'm sick of watching 1 1/2 hours of cars going round and round and ending up thinking 'Oh, was that it then?'

Great, just great, I go from one BB to get away from this kind of thing only to find someone else bagging F1.

If you don't like it don't watch it.

[Carla O]

If I was going to stop watching F1 ever it would have been after Senna died. I didn't then so I won't now...

And you still get quite a few good races... and you still get to see good drivers.

i don't deny some safety measures are ruining it. i still haven't had the chance to see the new Estoril, but they have ruined that track since they built the "new" curve way back in the early 90's i think.

xxx
Carla

and as someone said and as i say to my dad all the time: "if you don't like it don't watch it..."

[TimD]

Originally posted by Aussiefan

If you don't like it don't watch it. [/B]

Careful what you wish for, Aussiefan. It might just happen.

If I don't miss my mark, I see where Angst is coming from. F1 is being criticised not in anger but in sorrow. I would certainly agree that the series at the moment has been at a low ebb, and has been for about three years. It's not that it's rubbish. It's not. It's not that it's uninteresting. It's not. But it could be so much better.

And we know it can be better, because we've seen it in the past. It's seasons like this where I thank goodness for the VCR machine. I can play back great races of the past, and remember the good times. I will still tape a GP on a Sunday, partly for completism, but Sunday afternoon will likely as not be spent at trackside, watching some actual racing in some other formula.

And that's Bernie's lookout. I've been a race fan for most of my life, but I stopped going to GPs years ago. The show just wasn't worth the money charged to get in, and being at trackside beats watching it on the telly hands down.

Bagging F1? Nope. Just praying for the day when I want to be rushing off to Silverstone for a GP again. It will happen, I am sure, but Bernie and Max need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I guess when you've seen 1000hp turbocars with sticky slicks and qualifying boost, a Y2K McLaren looks a bit wussy with its measly little 700bhp...!

[Tris]

Ok we all know F1 is not as good as it used to be but we still keep watching it.. thus it must have somthing that is right! No? In that case we must all be addicts.

(Bring back forced induction engines!)

[neutral]

Or maybe it just becos one of you least favourite drivers has won the WDC? Don't let that little displeasure kill off your passion for F1.

Right on the money LYM. If Mika had won the title, Angst would have labelled 2000 as the greatest year in the history of F1.

Drivers had to think their way through a race rather than drive as quick as they could and come in for a pitstop when the team had decided. It wasn't viewed as acceptable to push (or attempt to push) a rival off the track in order to win a WDC.

Do I sense sour grapes??

If you don't like it don't watch it.

Aussiefan I completely agree with you. I hate Indy and Nascar, but I dont visit their forums and start *****1ng.

[Marshal]

Neutral, I have to disagree with your analysis of Angst's motives here. While I agree he obviously has some distaste for the way Schuey disports himself I think his view of F1 would be exactly the same if Mika had won every race. The underlying point here isn't who's winning its how exciting the racing is.

Part of the problem is that I think the cars are better than they have ever been, and are more competetive than they've ever been. Unfortunately, because of the nature of the racing today (sprints between pitstops) the drivers are required to use a lot less finesse than in days of yore, as taking care of the car is so much less important than it was.

Now I think this counts against your lad Micheal, as while I'm not a fan, I think he has more capacity to think on his feet than any of the current crop of drivers. I think Angst would be delighted if there were no fuel stops, to see Schuey use his head and racecraft to work his way through the field, overtaking on the track. F1 racing used to be about more than driving a car flat out for 90 mins, but telemetry and pitstops have taken a large chunk of the drivers input away. I personally think this is why people like Jenson Button can come into F1 and be competetive straight away.

Back on topic I have to agree with most of what Angst says, but despite everything there have been some good races this year, and I'm the eternal optomist who always thinks next year will be better.

So I'm expecting outstanding cars from BAR, Jordan, Benetton and Williams (so we have 11 drivers who can win at any race) and F1 having its most competetive season since '76. I think the chaps in the white coats say I have to leave now.....

[downforce]

Yeah its all abt losing...and sour grapes.

Face it people, this is the Year of Michael Schumacher, and im so sorry for you coz the only thing he did "bad" was conduct the Italian anthem.

This is the year when Schumacher fans the world over rejoice and we're not leavin you, to ***** by yourselves

[downforce]

Oh yeah Marshall?

and I loved the days when Eve wore a freakin Fig-leaf!!!!

[angst]

Thank you Tim and Marshall for actually understanding the reasons for my original post. But for those who can see that a world exists beyond TGF then reading the post would make it pretty obvious this is to do with the declining quality of the sport I have loved since childhood. I agree, Marshall, that TGF would probably excell in 'real' grand prix racing as he is an intelligent, thinking driver. And Tim, it is with sadness that I find myself viewing the current state of F1.
Aussiefan, I am not comparing CART to F1, the best drivers still want to prove themselves in F1 and that is where the majority of the best drivers are to be found. Unfortuantely few get the recognition their talents deserve, so masked are their performances by the current breed of F1 cars. Given the choice I would prefer to be watching the F1 drivers race each other in racing cars, not twitchy, semi-automatic abominations.
As for some of the replies, they are based on shallow assuptions (to use the sales adage - never assume, it makes an ass of u and me) regarding my reasons for discontentment, and not once in those posts has any glimmer of hope been given as to why I should watch F1. I shall give these small minded responses the scant regard they deserve.
Marshal, I am also an eternal optimist, and will no doubt be drawn into believing next season will be better, and will no doubt feel as unfulfilled this time next year and every other weekend for the duration of the season......Oh well.

[Marshal]

Originally posted by downforce
Oh yeah Marshall?

and I loved the days when Eve wore a freakin Fig-leaf!!!!

Downforce, I'm not asking you to share a point of view, I just trying to explain why some might have enjoyed F1 more when it was more cerebal. And it has nothing to do with anyone driving today. Blimey it appears I'm over the hill already and I'm only 28.

BTW I always thought the garden of eden sounded much more fun before eve discovered fig leaves. Just a personal view mind.

[Gt_R]

i only wish racing was like the days of Dijon '79!!!!

[Tris]

Originally posted by Gt_R
i only wish racing was like the days of Dijon '79!!!!

Ok this may not be the most intelligent post of all time but those closing laps were the greatest in the history of the sport.... No wonder Gilles is my favourite diver of all-time!

[downforce]

you dont get it Marshall...she wore it round her neck!!...lol!

Angst, you must realise that F12000 with...
1]1 Hakka move in Spa
2]1 DC finger in MagnyCours
3]1 pole-vaulting Pedro in Monza
...gave the millenium F1fan his dose of "wheel to wheel" racing.

There are moments in 2000 that i'll savour for quite some time, in particular DC tailing Mika on the embankment at Indy for that top row spot...the 2 Mcmercs looked like Stealths in a grey sky!!!

That was jus one example...but u see surely you didnt compare Gilles' car with a Stealth??..I love F12000 with all of its "antics"...pleez dont be a kill joy

Originally posted by neutral

Aussiefan I completely agree with you. I hate Indy and Nascar, but I dont visit their forums and start *****1ng.

What? Are you implying that I am *****ing? How? I'm just sick of going onto F1 forums to find everyone whinging about how **** F1 is and how good Cart is. I must be different to most people as I find F1 very interesting and not boring at all. Just because there isn't AS MUCH passing as other categories it doesn't mean it's ****. It doesn't bother me that there were only two teams winning, it was still a good championship in my opinion.

[downforce]

er...Aussiefan...i dont think ur the one whos *****ing...

[White Van Man]

There IS life beyond F1!!

How about you take a look at CART, Superbikes, GP Bikes, ALMS, FFord, historic touring cars, even Renault Clio racing ?!

I am lucky enough to be trackside most weekends through the summer, and I really couldn't care less that i'm missing F1 to do so. Despite being the biggest motorsport fan about, I only actually tuned in to one GP this year - Japan - and fell asleep during that... I've never fallen asleep watching any of the series listed above...

If you're bored with F1 and all it's BS, i'd suggest you look further afield - you'll not regret it.

[Maisie]

I'll admit to only really getting into F1 in a big way since about 1995. Since then I've been hooked, and religiously watched every race, and videotaped all from the last few years. I used to wait for the "5 minutes to go" FIA logo with bated breath, and get butterflies in my stomach. I'm not a Schumacher fan, but this year I found myself strangely unbothered by his winning the championship. I forgot completely about qualifying for the last race of the season until I saw the results posted on here. Somehow F1 has failed to grip me as much this year as it ever has before. I'm not entirely sure why this is, but I'd hazard a guess that the comparison between it and so many other race series has done a lot. This year, I've been watching the BTCC and TOCA support races, MGOC races, historics and many, many more. Most of these races have been much, much more entertaining than an average F1 race. Close dices, great looking cars (not that F1 cars aren't), and often the added fillip of knowing people inside the cars and having a friend to cheer on. Somehow these races mattered a lot more to me, personally, than 22 cars in close formation hurtling round a distant track. Not having satellite or cable, I've never watched CART of NASCAR, so I'm not just F1-bashing because I'm a fan of a rival series. I'm just saying that somewhere along thelines F1 has lost its magic. I'll still watch as many races live as I can, and video the rest to watch. I still won't miss any if I can help it, but the fervour has gone.

[angst]

Aussiefan, I believe it is me who is '*****ing', that wasn't directed at you.
Downforce, you have mentioned one overtaking move, an obscene gesture and a crash as reasons to remember the season. The overtaking move was a good one, but the fact there is one overtaking move to remmeber from the season pretty much sums up what's wrong, in my opinion. The only race that had anything like the racing I remember was Germany. The crash involving Pedro at Monza resulted in the death of a marshall and I really don't see anything to celebrate in that.
Do you really think you see anything of the driver's talents in these cars? Wouldn't you like to see Schumacher controlling a car that was a challenge to drive (bear in mind that Raikkonen said the Sauber was easier to drive than his FRenault). Or watch him performing overtaking manouvre on a more regular basis?
If you enjoyed it, then don't let my opinion spoil your fun. That isn't my intention. I'm just pointing out it isn't anywhere near the sport I started watching, and have enjoyed watching for many years. I'm happy for you, you've enjoyed the season and your man got the title.

[downforce]

Originally posted by angst
The crash involving Pedro at Monza resulted in the death of a marshall and I really don't see anything to celebrate in that.
...never said anything abt celebration...did i???

Do you really think you see anything of the driver's talents in these cars? Wouldn't you like to see Schumacher controlling a car that was a challenge to drive
....seen enuff of that im afraid!!!

I'm just pointing out it isn't anywhere near the sport I started watching, and have enjoyed watching for many years.
...pray tell me which sport remains the same for many years??...Golf?

Cmon!
2000 saw DC comin of age as a kind of contender, finally...Mika at his best[believe me he'll never get better]...Rubens' rain-dance...Jacques proving his class{and his "schuminess" bumming Ralf out in canada]...my man of the year-Pedro displayin speed...and lots more[too tired to type]....Yep i saw the talents of all these drivers, often being let down by technology...peace!

[Billy_Hunt]

My first response to this thread was, what is the point of it if you truly do not like Formula 1 anymore why go onto an F1 forum and tell everybody how cr*p it is ?
Perhaps you dont really think it's that bad and just want your faith restoring ,or is it you just wanted to start an heated debate.
I guess I'm what people would call a newbie to Formula 1. Over the past 7 years my enthusiasm for the sport has gained & gained every year, this year I saw my first live race Don't those car's sound just amazing ?.
Sometime's I wish I had seen the likes of Senna racing then sometime's I think perhap's it would do more harm than good how many time's on this forum do we hear it's not like the good old days which is fair enough ,I'm sure there was some spectacular racing.But guy's come on live in the now !! the past is ok in small doses ,F1 is getting over run by people saying it's not what it used be if it was'nt for some of the regulation's half the driver's would be dead and the other half would be having a picnic as the car drove it's self around the circuit.
I have no particular intrest in what happened in a race 2 years ago never mind 19 0 blob but that is my own opinion and I know lot's do like looking back ,but stop slagging todays F1 I and lot's of others like todays racing
I Can't wait for next year..
Whats Montoya going to be like ?
Can Ferrari do it again ? (I doubt it )
Who will turn out to be McLarens no1 ?
Will we see a team between the two current leaders or in front ?
Is TGF going to fail drastically now the pressure is off getting Ferrari the drivers championship ?
Is Minardi ever going to mix it with the big boys ?
What Impact is michelin going to have ?
Will Button walk all over Fisi ?
Will Ralf and Montoya come to blows ?
Is Olivier Panis really going to be slower than Jacques Villeneuve ?
Are Jaguar going to get their act together ?
Are Jordan ?
That's just a few of the thing's I'm looking forward too.
Nobody can answer a single question (I know a few of you with your crystal balls will try )

Cmon!
2000 saw DC comin of age as a kind of contender, finally...Mika at his best[believe me he'll never get better]...Rubens' rain-dance...Jacques proving his class{and his "schuminess" bumming Ralf out in canada]...my man of the year-Pedro displayin speed...and lots more[too tired to type]....Yep i saw the talents of all these drivers, often being let down by technology.

Well said downforce I really enjoyed this year's racing too ! (even though my least liked team and driver got the championships)