Toro Rosso - HONDA

[Nikki Katz]

Not happening in 2018 https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...talks-collapse

[S griffin]

Saw that too, seems Honda's best hope of a second team is to bring back Super Aguri

[peebee2]

Red Bull are smart operators as the only way McLaren would get Renault is if an existing Renault team left The Regie. Hence STR no change.

[VIVA GT]

I thought that we were in the middle of an enforced break, and NOTHING is supposed to be happening in Formula One at the moment?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I thought that we were in the middle of an enforced break, and NOTHING is supposed to be happening in Formula One at the moment?

If only that meant that all those team principals like Horner would keep their mouths shut. Unfortunately, it is only the workshops/teams that are on their summer hols.

[Richard Casto]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I thought that we were in the middle of an enforced break, and NOTHING is supposed to be happening in Formula One at the moment?

I assume that has a finite limit of who is impacted and it is more targeted at worker bees at the teams. That upper management and engine suppliers can continue to work. So Honda is back in Japan doing their thing with the engine and various players in the teams are doing their thing. Those in upper management might be on holiday and working a bit as well? Does it really "stop" during the summer break or just slow down.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Red Bull are smart operators as the only way McLaren would get Renault is if an existing Renault team left The Regie. Hence STR no change.

It seems Honda and McLaren may both still be pushing to make this happen.

http://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/mclaren/news/mclaren-renault-waiting-for-toro-rosso-decision_306537.html

Honda's comments suggest that they need to move to another team in order to stay in F1, and could that force them to buy their way in?

[GTRMagic]

Not sure its great reporting for Toro Rosso to be made out like it us a stumbling block to McLaren's competitiveness.

Why is McLaren more important than Toro Rosso?

And given that McLaren signed their deal with Honda, why is the pressure seemingly on Toro Rosso to get them out if it?

If you were at Red Bull, you might not want McLaren having the same engine as you, despite what your racing bosses might say in public.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If you were at Red Bull, you might not want McLaren having the same engine as you, despite what your racing bosses might say in public.

This might be the key to McLaren's argument. Red Bull always claim they are interested in the sporting contest, so positioning them as blockers to a 'fair' contest might go someway towards convincing them to prove their claims of being open to it.

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So Red Bull have a good engine

"good" being a relative term here. without Honda, we'd all think the Renault is a horrible engine. only 1 Renault-powered car (Kvyat) did not get a PU-related grid penalty in Italy.

And the reliability is... well, just ask Max.

in fact, switching Honda for Renault is the dumbest move ever, imo. Honda have been struggling for 3 years, Renault for 5. And while Honda is clearly showing improvement, Renault is going backwards. only RBR seems to be able to keep their level of performance.

[Akrapovic]

So again, Red Bull have an engine that isn't good enough, so they're going to swap it for an exploding toaster?

Honda may have made the tiniest smallest amount of progress at one point, but it certainly hasn't been enough to make a difference.

[Richard Casto]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It seems Honda and McLaren may both still be pushing to make this happen.

http://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-...on_306537.html

Honda's comments suggest that they need to move to another team in order to stay in F1, and could that force them to buy their way in?

There is a few threads discussing the same topic. But I think that article sums up the issue. Red Bull IMHO holds all the cards in these negotiations. The question is what are they looking for from both McLaren and Honda to make this work?

* Money from Honda?
* Driver choice (Honda not pushing drivers on TR)
* Data from McLaren?

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

The question is what are they looking for from both McLaren and Honda to make this work?

* Money from Honda?
* Driver choice (Honda not pushing drivers on TR)
* Data from McLaren?

And also, what are Honda looking for?
At the moment they supply a team and fund a driver.
Do they want more?
Do they only want to provide engines, or do they want a team?
Was the McLaren deal a route for them to bring future drivers into F1?
Have they given up trying to compete under current regs, but want a stake in controlling the next ones?

[Richard Casto]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

And also, what are Honda looking for?
At the moment they supply a team and fund a driver.
Do they want more?
Do they only want to provide engines, or do they want a team?
Was the McLaren deal a route for them to bring future drivers into F1?
Have they given up trying to compete under current regs, but want a stake in controlling the next ones?

Good question as to what Honda wants. I think Honda first wants a lifebuoy to be tossed to them so they can remain in the sport. Based upon prior comments from Hasegawa, it sounds like its unlikely Honda wants to control a team right now. Maybe later. So I would put their list at...

1. Stay in F1
2. Success with the engine
3. Full return as team owner.

With each stage contingent upon the success of the previous. I wouldn't put them buying into a partial stake in TR being out of the question, but I would be shocked if they were to fully take over the team at this point. I have no clue if Honda wants to push specific drivers or not.

Richard

[chillibowl]

so i thought a decision was imminent...or did Honda miss this deal line too?