If not Hakkennen, who?

[krt917]

Originally posted by Wrex
I agree. Monza for example, some here gave it to him. He had the choice of pulling 2nd and 8 valuable points, or throw it off the track. And he done that, they really would have screamed at him.

I agree that it is good to see a more mature JPM, but I don't really see Monza in that light. Ican't help but feel that if it had been the other way round (MS chasing JPM), then Schuey would have kept at it, to keep the pressure on. AND he wouldn't have thrown it off the track.

Similarly, France. He should at least have stayed close to Ralf. Maybe he would have been able to have a go when Ralf made his mistake (assuming he would still have made it).

I think those two races almost showed his immaturity; he got annoyed at pit strategy (France) and backmarkers (Italy) which caused him to give up the chase.

That's why he isn't on my list, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't be in the future.

[RWC]

Against any of the greats would be awsome

But only against someone as equaly ruthless as senna would we have such fireworks as to put the senna/prost thing to shame

[Mr V]

Originally posted by krt917
I agree that it is good to see a more mature JPM, but I don't really see Monza in that light. Ican't help but feel that if it had been the other way round (MS chasing JPM), then Schuey would have kept at it, to keep the pressure on. AND he wouldn't have thrown it off the track.

Don't recall JPM throwing it off the track???

Looking at the rear wings that the Williams was running with regards to Michaels Ferrari and the difference in top speeds along the straight, i don't see what he could have done had he not decided to lift? After all, as you say, Michael wouldn't have thrown it off the track and that would have been JPM's only chance to pass.

[krt917]

My 'throwing off the track' statement was referring to a previous post suggesting he would/might have done if he had continued his pursuit of Schuey.

I'm not saying Montoya threw away a win; he probably wouldn't have been able to beat MS, but he gave up trying after losing some time behind backmarkers. For someone who is praised as a real race (which I believe he is) I found that rather surprising. I'm sure he is getting more mature, but he needs to find the point where he does take the right amount of risk at the right times. I'm just saying that I think he dropped off too much at Monza (and Magny-Cours).

[climb]

Just Gilles Villeneuve: ultimately the only possible strong challenge from a man named Villeneuve...

[Jordi]

-Ayrton Senna
-Alain Prost
-Juan Manuel Fangio
-Jim Clark
-Jackie Stewart
-Gilles Villeneuve
-Jacques Villeneuve
-Stirling Moss
-Mika Hakkinen
-Kimi Raikkonen
-Fernando Alonso
-Tazio Nuvolari
-Rudy Caracciola
-Bernd Rosemeyer
-Jean Pierre Wimille
-Alberto Ascari
-Damon Hill
-Graham Hill
-John Surtees
-Emerson Fittipaldi
-Ronnie Peterson
-Jochen Rindt

All those in F2004s. Or better, them in Ferraris and MS in a BAR 01, so he suffers like the 7th in my list undeservedly did.

[Gt_R]

OOh.. I pretty much believe that JV chose his own path to BAR and everything else. Undeservedly? Why?

I just have one thing to add to the JPM debate. It's something on the fence, not towards any side. But i believe that there is a difference between "settling (and securing) for the best possible result" and "giving up because of some non-car/strategy related reasons"

I keep hearing comparisons of JPM's france and Monza drive to times when MS settle for 2nd best. The difference is for example in Hockenheim, where MS did not go charging for the full distance because he knew he had got the best out of everything and had achieved the best possible result. To continue a pointless pursuit and risk damage/retirement/off is not needed. JPM in France gave up because he is angry with the team and upset of having his strategy countered by Ralf. In Monza he gave up because he's upset with being held up by backmarkers. In both cases, the car is still capable and there is still the chance, but the primary reason to not continue with the pursuit is more of being down to the driver.

Is this condemning JPM? Nope...because for a long time, i've said that JPM's talent needs only to be polished with a maturing attitude of knowing when to push, when to work for damage limitations/maximise points out of a best situation. So i must admit that JPM in some races had shown a level of maturity to complement his talent. It's occasional "tempers" which is what eventually cost him. I've no problem if he settled for 2nd at Monza if MS is too far ahead with a quicker car and JPM thinks his car is barely going to make the race distance...but not if a driver, any driver, give up because they just lost hope.

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by hamsmith
I was a fan of JPM last year.

You are not JPM's fans. A true fans, despite feel dissapointment, still be a fans, not 'a fan of JPM last year'.

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by hamsmith
O.K who would you like to see challenging micheal schumacher. dead or alive.:confused: :confused:

I would like to see a lot of former F1 driver (dead or live) challenging Michael, or Michael challenging them.

For instance: Jim Clark, Fangio, Senna Prost, Mansell, etc, etc.

But, I don't like to dreaming. So, I would like to see Juan Pablo, Kimi, and Fernando challenging and beating Michael.

[Gt_R]

You sure you don't like to dream?

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Gt_R
You sure you don't like to dream?

No, I am not.

At least, it can happen. Its not dream as
'the dead or live F1 driver' challenging Michael.

[Gt_R]

Strange...call me bias but i seriously doubt the dead can beat Michael in a race.

Yepp, this is the "change of an era" period... It's facinating to see if the "replacement killers" can draw even the score, or let MS run away with 2-0 or a hattrick against them.

we were robbed the previous time, so why miss this one?