Option Tyre? (Merged x3)

[pete55]

I'm not sure different tyre compounds is the answer.

[Razor]

I was reading in V8X that Dunlop Australia was bought by Goodyear and that the tyres might now be made in the USA rather Japan. I like the idea of mini enduro's, like the Queensland 300 back in 2005. I reckon make Oran Park, Winton and Warick rounds mini enduros.

[racer69]

here's a thought......

With 3 tyre companies seemingly willing to support V8Supercars, why not allow the lot of them in, that would spice the racing up a hell of alot more than this 'option tyre' and 'compulsory pitstop' rubbish. It would also make the whole series alot less contrived, and to top it all off might lead to the whole thing everyone seems to be screaming out for, different winners at different tracks (as different tyres might suit different tracks better)

[johnh875]

That goes against the whole control componentry direction the series is going in though, and the reason why they went to a single supplier in the first place

[davester]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A brand new tyre construction & compound from someone who has not supplied the sport for many years would be the biggest shakeup in the racing... as the teams have to get used to the new tyre's characteristics...

Introducing a new tyre will merely widen the gap between the good teams and the others, as the good teams have the analytical and simulation nous to learn it faster. Right now, all teams have a pretty good handle on the tyres.

With regard to the discussion on improving the spectacle, it would be better to lengthen the race and replace the CPS (tyre/fuel) with voluntary fuel/tyre strategies. This keeps the sporting purity and keeps everyone guessing on what the others are doing (just like F1). This wont work with short sprint races however.

[pete55]

Originally Posted by davester

Introducing a new tyre will merely widen the gap between the good teams and the others, as the good teams have the analytical and simulation nous to learn it faster. Right now, all teams have a pretty good handle on the tyres.

With regard to the discussion on improving the spectacle, it would be better to lengthen the race and replace the CPS (tyre/fuel) with voluntary fuel/tyre strategies. This keeps the sporting purity and keeps everyone guessing on what the others are doing (just like F1). This wont work with short sprint races however.

At least now the CPS's don't start in the first few laps.

[Also a Believer]

With regard to the discussion on improving the spectacle, it would be better to lengthen the race and replace the CPS (tyre/fuel) with voluntary fuel/tyre strategies. This keeps the sporting purity and keeps everyone guessing on what the others are doing (just like F1). This wont work with short sprint races however.[/QUOTE]

Would work if the fuel tanks where made smaller

[speedreader]

The one thing I do enjoy with F1 is the unknown factor about fuel levels both in qualifying and at the start of the race.

The CPS in V8's are in most instances a farce as virtually everyone stops as soon as the pit window opens (weather not being a factor of course) so they dont get caught out by a pace car. The only benefit this brings to the spectacle is the possibility of a team making a mistake during the pit stop ie a jammed wheel nut etc.

If we had a look at a 'similar' system to F1 whereby you have to start with the fuel level you finish qualifying with, maybe smaller fuel tanks to force pit stops later in the races and some way of easing the impact of the pace car so teams were encouraged to choose different strategies it would make for more interesting racing.

Having multiple tyre companies and nominated option compounds at the beginning of each round might work too but only if each tyre company made the committment to be able to supply up to a full grid of tyres for each round all at the same price - probably not an viable option for them. If we could get this to work though it would (hopefully) negate the need for sponsored teams and favouritism as it would ensure that any team could have access to any tyre brand / option at any race meeting - just as long as they (the teams) nominate which brand / option tyre they are to use on the Saturday morning before qualifying... It would definitely add another element to the racing but also adds more emphasis to tyre brand / compound testing on test day's which may end up costing more and this goes against the idea of reducing costs with the control tyre.

All just quick thoughts for now to get people thinking

[db120176]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So... there are 3 suppliers (Pirelli, SPT/Dunlop and Yokohama) allegedly in the mix for the control tyre contract from next year and beyond

So no Bridgestone? Not like them to miss a marketing opportunity.

If they go with Pirelli, at least their qualifiers will be good

[banksie]

Originally Posted by pete55

At least now the CPS's don't start in the first few laps.

They changed that rule for Winton and onwards. Didn't you notice how Whincup pitted before 1/3rd race distance in race 1 at least? They moved the window back to lap 5 till 2/3rd race distance I believe. Typical of the series though, they didn't bother to inform fans of the change.

As for smaller fuel tanks, the fuel levels don't impact the lap speed enough to have a serious affect. Look at Clipsal, generally the cars still all pit twice early to avoid a safety car.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by banksie

As for smaller fuel tanks, the fuel levels don't impact the lap speed enough to have a serious affect. Look at Clipsal, generally the cars still all pit twice early to avoid a safety car.

Might make a difference if you reduced it by 50%. Other than probably Sandown and Bathurst, what other races would they start on a full tank?? Why run sprint race with 120 litres onboard, doesn't make sense....

Now a 50-60 litre tank would make things interesting, and to the same extent limit the amount of fuel that can be used after Friday, and bingo you've got a couple teams on the ropes, and not just the ones down the blunt end of the field.

Back to thread at hand, I hope whoever gets the contract, builds a better tyre than what we have now. The tyres really need some serious improvement on the construction side, which should in turn extract some marginally better lap times.

[pete55]

Originally Posted by speedygirl

The one thing I do enjoy with F1 is the unknown factor about fuel levels both in qualifying and at the start of the race.

If we had a look at a 'similar' system to F1 whereby you have to start with the fuel level you finish qualifying with, maybe smaller fuel tanks to force pit stops later in the races and some way of easing the impact of the pace car so teams were encouraged to choose different strategies it would make for more interesting racing.

This is a better idea than different tyre compounds. That and longer races, especially at tracks that has pit facilities for enduro races.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Razor

I was reading in V8X that Dunlop Australia was bought by Goodyear and that the tyres might now be made in the USA rather Japan. I like the idea of mini enduro's, like the Queensland 300 back in 2005. I reckon make Oran Park, Winton and Warick rounds mini enduros.

Winton has been there/done that and it is not conducive for 300k's races IMHO.

[peckstar]

i thought both 300's were much more enjoyable , than last years round and race 3 this year

[RotorFan]

Skaife said on panelbeaters the other week that the direction they were going in was to have an updated compound with the same grip but longer lasting, more durable and less sensitive to lockups.

[StuiE]

Originally Posted by johnh875

That goes against the whole control componentry direction the series is going in though, and the reason why they went to a single supplier in the first place

The whole control componentry direction is wrong, that is the reason why there is little overtaking, all the cars are the same, rather than having characteristics that will make one faster than another in one section, and slower than another in a different section. Tyres being a part of this, I'd prefer different suppliers, as racer 69 said. If they still want a control tyre, it should be really soft, as driving styles will determin how quick the car goes, and for how long. It'd also kill two birds with one stone, as since the tyres would go off pretty quick, the cars would stay out longer before pitting, as they wouldn't be able to go 90% of the race on the same set of tyres.

[V8's rule]

Originally Posted by StuiE

The whole control componentry direction is wrong, that is the reason why there is little overtaking, all the cars are the same, rather than having characteristics that will make one faster than another in one section, and slower than another in a different section. Tyres being a part of this, I'd prefer different suppliers, as racer 69 said. If they still want a control tyre, it should be really soft, as driving styles will determin how quick the car goes, and for how long. It'd also kill two birds with one stone, as since the tyres would go off pretty quick, the cars would stay out longer before pitting, as they wouldn't be able to go 90% of the race on the same set of tyres.

YEA RIGHT!!



.

[Lukin]

Giving them better grip and/or more sustainable tyre grip will definately help the racing.

In Perth 04 the track was resurfaced to give more grip and the racing was much better.

If a quick car can do a 80 second lap and a slow car 82 second lap on new tyres and both lose the same amount of grip (say 3-5%) due to tyre wear the quicker car will lose more and it will be much harder to pass.

Look at Bathurst, the track grips up over the day so there is still some good racing at the end. Look at Winton, no track or tyre grip, boring as bat****.

[deeks6]

Make them run on ROAD tyres ... I GUARANTEE you will get passing and I GUARANTEE you will not need CPS ever again.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by StuiE

The whole control componentry direction is wrong, that is the reason why there is little overtaking, all the cars are the same, rather than having characteristics that will make one faster than another in one section, and slower than another in a different section. Tyres being a part of this, I'd prefer different suppliers, as racer 69 said. If they still want a control tyre, it should be really soft, as driving styles will determin how quick the car goes, and for how long. It'd also kill two birds with one stone, as since the tyres would go off pretty quick, the cars would stay out longer before pitting, as they wouldn't be able to go 90% of the race on the same set of tyres.

Absolutely 100% cerrrrect ... how long before these boneheads that run motor sport work out that in a "premier" category, the difference between the best driver and the 20th driver on the grid is minimal.

If all the cars are all the same and the penalty for having a go (unless you are Mums Boy) is'nt worth the risk (relative to the points system), it follows quite logically that you will simply have processions unless the weather conditions (e.g. Winton) mix things up.

Quite frankly, they ought to "create" these conditiond for every meeting the way it is now.

[Pro Racer]

with a new tender for tyre supplier could an option tyre be brought in ala F1 and ChampCar? i think yes and are all for it as it is the only way we can bring back passing other than driving past someone in pitlane.

so what do you think?

[Dazz]

Two different compounds could really spice up the racing if you have to use them both during the weekend.

Some may choose to go soft and qualify well, but those who qualify bad may keep the softies for the last part of each race and use their better grip to pass the cars in front.

Of course within two races all temas may end up on the same strategy but at least it would be a genuine variable.

[dsg]

Everyone will probably end up using the stratergy but I think a tyre with greater grip would improve racing.

[Chucky]

Yes, and I want the ones that make coloured smoke as well.

[Pro Racer]

like the ones used at Summernats blue for Fords red for Holdens.

if i were to determine rules on these tyres i would hathese.

*you can practice and qualify on either/both.

*you have to use the "option tyre" in each race when and for how long is up to the teams.

if we had the option tyre it would certainly spice Clipsal, Sandown and Bathurst up abit.