TLs, TLs, TLs??? - Page 5

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 07:00 (Ref:3254834)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

How? and who are NZV8 Touring Cars ltd? They are not in the companies register. How did they blow off the directors?
What was the public abuse and who did it come from? I thought those two were working with the CC and ST?
What and whose legals bills? Who is the group trying to stop any further progression?

It's NZ V8 Touring Cars Ltd. Founded in 2002 but not used for ages, until suddenly after TMC/MPL folded, came back to life. You have found it already. Look at directors and shareholders.

Mark Petch · 29 May 2013, 07:07 (Ref:3254836)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

What do you need clarified?

How? and who are NZV8 Touring Cars ltd? They are not in the companies register. How did they blow off the directors?
What was the public abuse and who did it come from? I thought those two were working with the CC and ST?
What and whose legals bills? Who is the group trying to stop any further progression?[/QUOTE]

OK Warwick, one more try, NEW ZEALAND V8 TOURING CARS LIMITED (1194899) Registered, when you go to the NZ Companies Register, type in the above and all will be revealed including Martin Fines Company Mapp and Associates, role in the creation of that company.

Search NZV8 LIMITED and you will find the original company, now run by Greg Lancaster, Lyall Williamson, and Steve Gillard, and formally run by Inky Tulloch, Mick Ross, Andrew Porter, and up until September last year Brian Budd.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 07:09 (Ref:3254837)

Ah New Zealand not NZ. Gotta be exact with so many similar names about!
How do we know that company is doing anything TL? It's only been posted here with the word "rumour" attached until now.
It's not a new company at all, but an old one renamed. Nothing unusal about directers being changed, if you looks it's been constantly updated over the years.

You must be fairly well connected to know exactly what people have or have not been told about. And to also know what company's are up to.
I'm not really seeing the smoking gun here yet. Is there a link to a TL series from this company? And if there is, are we sure it's not a hangover from the commitment already made?

Is Dan Brown writing this plot? Does Martin Fine have a mysterious symbol tattooed on his butt? Has Petch and Fine ever been seen together in the same room?!

raymond · 29 May 2013, 07:09 (Ref:3254838)

At the moment; I think you guys are looking for reds-under-the-bed.
NZV8 Touring Cars is a competitor representative group. If it does turn into a promotions group for V8's, then so be it, but it doesnt get ANY MSNZ money.

The more important question being asked instead of throwing around baseless comments and accusations is "Why hasnt V8 Supertourers been given the Gold Star status?" To me it needs to happen, but cant until they get themselves sanctioned before I can start that dialogue at the Exec table.

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 07:10 (Ref:3254839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

exactly!! so why is NZV8s being turned into CC.. when clearly running a long stretched out season as support for ST.. at only a couple of upper north island tracks.. clearly doesn't work? where is the middle ground? wasn't the idea for to TL class (under whatever name they're using these days) to keep their own identity and be a national class.. rather than being used as padding for the rather underwhelming ST support classes? looks like there's been no progress been made at all?

I would agree with your last statement. And it's frustrating as hell.

Clearly there are some at MSNZ who are not interested in building bridges and moving the sport forward, but instead are only interested in their own petty vendettas. There are also plenty at MSNZ who do not feel like that, but they do not seem to be the ones in control.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 07:12 (Ref:3254840)

If you read what GT86 was saying he was quite clear on the NZV8 part. Byt it seems he was abbreviating.

And MAP is just the registered office. I'm sure you are well away that the registered office is not the actual legal owner. Or are you saying every company that has their registered office there is owned by Martin Fine?

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 07:21 (Ref:3254846)

FYI Maxi, the Pukekohe ST enduro round that I went to last year was one of the best days' racing I had been to in a long time. Lots of great support classes, decent grids and good racing.

The experience on the weekend just gone was not as good, partly because of the weather and partly because there were fewer supports (no CMC and no Honda Cup) plus the CC was lacking in numbers (good racing though up front). I think this is largely because many competitors had packed their toys away for the winter after the V8SC event. I would think that ST would prefer to run in April for the sprint finale next year, it's just a question of whether certain people at MSNZ will stop being ******s about it and let them race at the SC event.

That does not mean Crunch and several others BTW.

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 07:24 (Ref:3254847)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

OK Warwick, one more try, NEW ZEALAND V8 TOURING CARS LIMITED (1194899) Registered, when you go to the NZ Companies Register, type in the above and all will be revealed including Martin Fines Company Mapp and Associates.

Search NZV8 LIMITED and you will find the original company, now run by Greg Lancaster, Lyall Williamson, and Steve Gillard, and formally run by Inky Tulloch, Mick Ross, Andrew Porter, and up until September last year Brian Budd.

If you read what GT86 was saying he was quite clear on the NZV8 part. Byt it seems he was abbreviating.

And MAP is just the registered office. I'm sure you are well away that the registered office is not the actual legal owner. Or are you saying every company that has their registered office there is owned by Martin Fine?

(Sigh) no, it is more guilt by association. GT86 made a typo is all, he was meaning the one we have been talking about.

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 07:30 (Ref:3254850)

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

At the moment; I think you guys are looking for reds-under-the-bed.
NZV8 Touring Cars is a competitor representative group. If it does turn into a promotions group for V8's, then so be it, but it doesnt get ANY MSNZ money.

The more important question being asked instead of throwing around baseless comments and accusations is "Why hasnt V8 Supertourers been given the Gold Star status?" To me it needs to happen, but cant until they get themselves sanctioned before I can start that dialogue at the Exec table.

Many of us thought that the sanctioning dialogue was well under way - were we wrong?

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 07:40 (Ref:3254856)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

(Sigh) no, it is more guilt by association. GT86 made a typo is all, he was meaning the one we have been talking about.

Guilt by association? You have to be kidding.
He started the train of conversation with a name. So he made a typo that confused things due to similar names being thrown about. It's sorted now.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 07:41 (Ref:3254857)

GB what makes you so sure the hold up is at MSNZs end?
Has anyone from STs confirmed they have done all the need to and are just waiting?

Icarus_nz · 29 May 2013, 08:35 (Ref:3254883)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

exactly!! so why is NZV8s being turned into CC.. when clearly running a long stretched out season as support for ST.. at only a couple of upper north island tracks.. clearly doesn't work? where is the middle ground? wasn't the idea for to TL class (under whatever name they're using these days) to keep their own identity and be a national class.. rather than being used as padding for the rather underwhelming ST support classes? looks like there's been no progress been made at all?

I agree.

It's like a marriage isn't it? BOTH parties have to want it to work. And for my dollar, judging the situation on the basis of actions, one side are trying to destroy part of the sport that they are charged with the responsibility of administering.

raymond · 29 May 2013, 08:47 (Ref:3254890)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Many of us thought that the sanctioning dialogue was well under way - were we wrong?

It has started, but a few things have got in the way of a smooth progression. Hopefully sorted in a couple of weeks???

raymond · 29 May 2013, 08:49 (Ref:3254892)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

I agree.

It's like a marriage isn't it? BOTH parties have to want it to work. And for my dollar, judging the situation on the basis of actions, one side are trying to destroy part of the sport that they are charged with the responsibility of administering.

Not true, can I have your dollar?

Blackpearl · 29 May 2013, 08:52 (Ref:3254894)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

GB what makes you so sure the hold up is at MSNZs end?
Has anyone from STs confirmed they have done all the need to and are just waiting?

Yawn, sts have a new owner and are being very proactive in sorting rules etc.

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 09:11 (Ref:3254903)

Hope Crunch is right - might have been a bit of a change of speed after the ownership change too maybe? Just speculating...

Alpina107 · 29 May 2013, 10:05 (Ref:3254923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

"Why hasnt V8 Supertourers been given the Gold Star status?" To me it needs to happen, but cant until they get themselves sanctioned before I can start that dialogue at the Exec table.

Crunch, why is class sanctioning such a barrier to NZ Championship / Gold Star status for ST, or any other class? Before you say "but it's in the rules", can I point out that the requirement to have at least 15 cars at 75% of the rounds is, or was in the rules. It seems to have been conveniently ignored or "adjusted" for TL last season, and the season before! Amazing how much red tape can be cut when people REALLY want things to happen.

on_to_it · 29 May 2013, 10:11 (Ref:3254926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

The more important question being asked instead of throwing around baseless comments and accusations is "Why hasnt V8 Supertourers been given the Gold Star status?" To me it needs to happen, but cant until they get themselves sanctioned before I can start that dialogue at the Exec table.

Hey Crunch, you forgot that disclaimer / thingee / what's-it...

**Woolley** · 29 May 2013, 12:09 (Ref:3254971)

As someone looking in from the outside who doesn't really care in any meaningful way I'd just like to address this point to you all.

What a shower. Murky dealings (possibly) and people lobbing bombs from both sides of the paddock really makes the whole sport look pretty pathetic. If I was looking to have any involvement in any way with any of this I would be taking my money elsewhere. Probably by now even to a different country.

Sorry, but you guys need to get a room, preferably with legal representation, and sort yourselves out.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 19:24 (Ref:3255130)

Yeah its incredibly sad. Was starting to bubble away back in the NZV8 heyday when lawyers were needed to win races and championships. Sad what money and egos will do.
I'm utterly astounded at the lies and rumour that gets spread around.

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 19:37 (Ref:3255141)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

As someone looking in from the outside who doesn't really care in any meaningful way I'd just like to address this point to you all.

What a shower. Murky dealings (possibly) and people lobbing bombs from both sides of the paddock really makes the whole sport look pretty pathetic. If I was looking to have any involvement in any way with any of this I would be taking my money elsewhere. Probably by now even to a different country.

Sorry, but you guys need to get a room, preferably with legal representation, and sort yourselves out.

Yep, I agree with you there. It's why H&C racing has become so popular, we get massive grids here and I've heard you do in dear old Blighty as well but even more so - I wonder if it's for similar reasons?

Many competitors and clubs over here are fed up with dealing with the bureaucracy, backroom dealings and old boys club and have gone off and done their own thing. Can't say I blame them.

Southern Man · 29 May 2013, 20:41 (Ref:3255179)

Question for everyone. Are the comments of so many posters part of the problem or part of the solution for one class of saloon car racing in NZ?

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 21:04 (Ref:3255190)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Question for everyone. Are the comments of so many posters part of the problem or part of the solution for one class of saloon car racing in NZ?

I think all parties sitting around a table and discussing the perceived issues, whether real or imagined, would be a good starting point.

There should not be so much resentment out there but clearly there is, and it doesn't seem to ever get addressed at the AGM due to the structure of the process. The AGM always seems to just maintain the status quo, which I think is why there seems to be such frustration out there from some competitors.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Alpina107 · 29 May 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3255230)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

There should not be so much resentment out there but clearly there is, and it doesn't seem to ever get addressed at the AGM due to the structure of the process. The AGM always seems to just maintain the status quo, which I think is why there seems to be such frustration out there from some competitors.

GB, I think your comment sums up the problem with the current situation.

Why should V8 racing (or any other class) be so reliant on what happens at the AGM for its governing body?

MNZ are the local representatives of the FIA and their principal focus should be making the sport "SAFE AND FAIR". That means technical and safety rules for drivers, vehicles and venues plus the National Sporting Code. Anything else, such as trying to promote one championship against another, is probably just a distraction, and should never be prioritised ahead of those fundamentals.

So what if we don't have a particular championship some years - if the championships are worth promoting, then someone independent of MNZ will step forward to take it on. Regardless, thousands of participants will still enjoy their local rallies, sprints, hill climbs and clubmans racing, including Historic & Classic. THEY are the sport and MNZ should not forget it!!

CDM · 30 May 2013, 00:20 (Ref:3255249)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpina107

So what if we don't have a particular championship some years - if the championships are worth promoting, then someone independent of MNZ will step forward to take it on. Regardless, thousands of participants will still enjoy their local rallies, sprints, hill climbs and clubmans racing, including Historic & Classic.

Agreed. And I think you will find that currently its actually the series that don't have a national championship status attached to them that appear to be stronger than most/all of the ones that do...