Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 27 Nov 2013, 16:27 (Ref:3337443)   #26
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,547
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremySmith View Post
Thank you for the link. Its a good piece and worth reading. I am not sure how this problem can be cured, if at all..
All F1 teams agreeing to a budget cap perhaps!!!!!!!!
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2013, 16:34 (Ref:3337445)   #27
JeremySmith
Veteran
 
JeremySmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
United Kingdom
Austin Texas
Posts: 11,402
JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhound View Post
All F1 teams agreeing to a budget cap perhaps!!!!!!!!
Well of course that is obvious, however the teams do not seem capable of agreeing on anything do they !
JeremySmith is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2013, 08:01 (Ref:3338481)   #28
Nicholosophy
Veteran
 
Nicholosophy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Australia
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,120
Nicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I have never understood how a sport can be run where the players determine the rules and one player can veto a rule.
Nicholosophy is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Dec 2013, 21:13 (Ref:3339475)   #29
Calman
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
Calman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Public discussions about finances in F1 have always been around, but this year, things seem ugly and the pressure is clearly higher than ever before.

It's a real shame that talent is dissolved, based on the sponsorship and backing a driver can bring to a team. F1 fans want to see the best drivers, in the best cars, push as hard as they can - but alas, F1 is no longer like that.
Calman is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2013, 07:52 (Ref:3339635)   #30
JacobP
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 495
JacobP should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There is a rumor that Sony may become McLaren's title sponsor.
JacobP is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2013, 10:21 (Ref:3339672)   #31
littleman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
northants
Posts: 913
littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I've always subscribed to the notion that "Every business reflects the man at the Top".

Until Ecclestone turns his toes up, F1 will remain a mysterious financial Black Hole driven by greed, smugness, devious behaviour and riddled with dubious ethics & practice's.

In short, it is morally bankrupt and borderline corrupt.
littleman is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2013, 10:43 (Ref:3339675)   #32
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
i agree, but with a little less fist-shaking.

and still people dream and aspire to be a part of it. talk about abusive relationships.
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2013, 13:50 (Ref:3339729)   #33
littleman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
northants
Posts: 913
littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
There is so much money floating around, in every level of motorsport, that it inevitably attracts the high-rollers, ego trippers, opportunist's, plus the devious, dispicable and vermin.
littleman is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2013, 09:50 (Ref:3340045)   #34
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,547
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
An interesting article by Mike Lawrence in Pitpass( ). He talks about the current state of play re finance, governance etc.

http://www.pitpass.com/50611/The-Young-Ones

After reading and other articles in recent times it appears that F1 is getting closer and closer to a cliff edge and does not appear to be able to pull itself back as none of the parties involved have the power to control it. It would not surprise me to see a major implosion/ financial crash as a number of teams pull out under financial stress.
At the moment the owners of Marussia are looking to merge with another team.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/198741/...ng_merger.html
To me it would make more sense for Marussia and Caterham to go sportscar racing than F1. I think they should get a better return as they get little puplicity in F1 anyway. Sportcar racing would offer them the oppertunity to market their car brand rather than the drivers names. The winner of LeMans is known by the car make first drivers second.
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2013, 10:57 (Ref:3340059)   #35
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,422
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
They wouldn't win Le Mans, they would be beaten by teams with better resources and more funding. That would only happen once a year though, so I guess that is better

Also, maybe they don't want to. In the same way that Aston or Porsche don't want to do F1.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2013, 12:22 (Ref:3340079)   #36
ace007
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 233
ace007 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhound View Post
An interesting article by Mike Lawrence in Pitpass( ). He talks about the current state of play re finance, governance etc.

http://www.pitpass.com/50611/The-Young-Ones

After reading and other articles in recent times it appears that F1 is getting closer and closer to a cliff edge and does not appear to be able to pull itself back as none of the parties involved have the power to control it. It would not surprise me to see a major implosion/ financial crash as a number of teams pull out under financial stress.
At the moment the owners of Marussia are looking to merge with another team.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/198741/...ng_merger.html
To me it would make more sense for Marussia and Caterham to go sportscar racing than F1. I think they should get a better return as they get little puplicity in F1 anyway. Sportcar racing would offer them the oppertunity to market their car brand rather than the drivers names. The winner of LeMans is known by the car make first drivers second.
Bernie has built it up to a point where no team can actually face it besides RB and Ferrari. Mercedes can follow but are unhappy about it and the rest of the field is simply on the verge of collapse.

Lotus almost fold. Without Maldo's $$, they would haave turned the page and Grosjean was at one point in November on the market for any F1 rescue and even possible endurance programs! If the 4th team on the grid has reached that status, it tells you about the rest... Signing Sirotkin and Kyvat for $$$ is a testimony of that. RB is taking $$ via Torro Rosso just like Mclaren did with Perez... Seriously!!!

For those who say it has always been like that, I reply: the last 2 or 3 teams have always welcomed an attached budget (Minardi, Jordan, etc.) but not 80% of the grid! THIS IS ALARMING INDEED.

And for the last two, I fully agree. They would have such an interesting program in endurance where they could fight for podiums and wins! In F1, Marussia and Caterham are simply burning $$ for no return.
ace007 is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2013, 20:25 (Ref:3340232)   #37
littleman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
northants
Posts: 913
littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If Bernie is paying huge appearance money to the likes of Ferrari & RBR then it's about time certain race tracks received similar treatment.There are several GP circuits throughout the World who are just as important to F1 as the teams themselves, maybe more so. They should ALL be given a GP for free or at a huge discount.In return, each circuit must support a National programme to develop it's Stars of the Future.

Nurburgring or Hockenheim
Monza
Spa
Silverstone
Suzuka
Paul Ricard/Le Mans - (France must have a permanent GP)

These tracks and Countries are the backbone of F1 and motorsport in general.
littleman is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2013, 21:10 (Ref:3340248)   #38
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,547
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman View Post
If Bernie is paying huge appearance money to the likes of Ferrari & RBR then it's about time certain race tracks received similar treatment.There are several GP circuits throughout the World who are just as important to F1 as the teams themselves, maybe more so. They should ALL be given a GP for free or at a huge discount.In return, each circuit must support a National programme to develop it's Stars of the Future.

Nurburgring or Hockenheim
Monza
Spa
Silverstone
Suzuka
Paul Ricard/Le Mans - (France must have a permanent GP)

These tracks and Countries are the backbone of F1 and motorsport in general.
What about the USA and probably Brazil
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2013, 21:25 (Ref:3340250)   #39
BtccLee
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,126
BtccLee should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBtccLee should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBtccLee should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I believe the concept of a F1 "The pinacle of Motor Sport" will never die. However, unless drastic changes are made its days in its present form are numbered...
BtccLee is online now  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2013, 12:12 (Ref:3340405)   #40
ace007
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 233
ace007 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BtccLee View Post
I believe the concept of a F1 "The pinacle of Motor Sport" will never die. However, unless drastic changes are made its days in its present form are numbered...
Like you say, without drastic changes, it is the beginning of the end. Door's open to Lemans, Indycar or even formula E which is growing day by day... If I were at CVC, I would be very careful how to cap costs asap...
ace007 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2013, 14:00 (Ref:3340451)   #41
Moneyseeker
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,169
Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace007 View Post
Like you say, without drastic changes, it is the beginning of the end. Door's open to Lemans, Indycar or even formula E which is growing day by day... If I were at CVC, I would be very careful how to cap costs asap...
I think they are more concerned with their exit strategy to make even more money, they have no interest in the F1 'product' and developing it at all.

Sadly F1 operates in a totally Darwinian way and the major teams are as guilty of this as anyone.

It is a house of cards waiting to fall over but I fear that due to the many vested interests this will be largely ignored until it is too late.

If I were at FOM I would have FOUR questions in the back of my mind.

Now that Red Bull has achieved so much how long will it want to continue as a team? Long term I can see it continuing to promote the Austrian GP and maybe even sponsoring some other GP's in key markets, or possibly F1 in total - this would keep it's F1 presence without the costs and pressure of running a team (s), particularly IF the winning streak end.

How long will Mercedes bankroll their F1 team if they don't win a title soon

Will any more manufacturers enter F1 as engine suppliers

How many teams will be on the grid still in 2015

Either any or all of the above would change F1 quite substantially and might be precursor to change.
Moneyseeker is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Dec 2013, 16:06 (Ref:3340486)   #42
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,716
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
Now that Red Bull has achieved so much how long will it want to continue as a team? Long term I can see it continuing to promote the Austrian GP and maybe even sponsoring some other GP's in key markets, or possibly F1 in total - this would keep it's F1 presence without the costs and pressure of running a team (s), particularly IF the winning streak end.
the RB empire has a huge adverting reach and as long as F1 is watched by hundreds of millions then its a question of where they get the better return, traditional advertising or owning an F1 team. arguably they could get the same reach by just being an F1 sponsor.

i'll see if i can find the article but i believe it was Joe Saward who was recently making this point that the RBR budget is still less then the cost of traditional advertising relative to the number of people/markets reached via the F1 team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
How long will Mercedes bankroll their F1 team if they don't win a title soon
similar logic to the RB advertising point but RBR has won titles so i do think you are right that its a title that makes it worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
Will any more manufacturers enter F1 as engine suppliers
still curious to see how Honda get treated. i sense that Mclaren doesnt command the same level of influence as they used and without a strong partner team any foray into F1 will be uphill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
How many teams will be on the grid still in 2015
and thats the 10 billion dollar question that CVC have to be asking themselves right now.

great great questions!
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 6 Dec 2013, 13:44 (Ref:3340795)   #43
JacobP
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 495
JacobP should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It's really interesting how Lotus and now Sauber delayed their driver line ups forever. Clearly, all depends on the money talks. I suspect that Lotus and Sauber will be some of the most unstable (in financial sense) teams next year.
JacobP is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 2013, 21:33 (Ref:3341008)   #44
BtccLee
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,126
BtccLee should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBtccLee should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBtccLee should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So we know what the issues are but what do people think the future holds?

Are we going to have a disaster ( lots of teams going under) which forces a change?


Is it too late and could that disaster kill the sport?


Does F1 in its present form have any future?


And what about "The pinnacle of Motor Sport". If this "F1" does collapase what next? A new series forgetting all the baggage?
BtccLee is online now  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 2013, 22:16 (Ref:3341041)   #45
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,547
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BtccLee View Post
So we know what the issues are but what do people think the future holds?

Are we going to have a disaster ( lots of teams going under) which forces a change?


Is it too late and could that disaster kill the sport?


Does F1 in its present form have any future?


And what about "The pinnacle of Motor Sport". If this "F1" does collapase what next? A new series forgetting all the baggage?
I would imagine 3 or 4 teams going under would cause problems but it does depend on who are the teams that dissapear. If 2 or 3 of the midfield outfits were to go then I suspect that might get all in involved to do something but it will require a shock to the system for anything to happen.
It depends on all involved to pull in the same direction without large quatities of money being taken out of the sport. It will also require everone involved to forget their self interest and work together for the good of the sport.
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 2013, 22:58 (Ref:3341057)   #46
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Until Ecclestone turns his toes up, F1 will remain a mysterious financial Black Hole driven by greed, smugness, devious behaviour and riddled with dubious ethics & practice's.

In short, it is morally bankrupt and borderline corrupt.

Good....nothings changed with F1 in the last 50 years then.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Dec 2013, 16:35 (Ref:3341256)   #47
Moneyseeker
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,169
Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobP View Post
It's really interesting how Lotus and now Sauber delayed their driver line ups forever. Clearly, all depends on the money talks. I suspect that Lotus and Sauber will be some of the most unstable (in financial sense) teams next year.
The big problem Sauber has is that its infrastructure and level of team operation was built up and paid for by BMW and run at BMW size budget, trying get run even part of that on the budget they have available now is why they are in difficulty.

We have been over the Quantum and Russian investors on other threads, without wishing to pre-empt what might or might not happen, the question is where are the 'serious' investors, the hedge funds, the global banks - why are they not snapping them up, I suggest that it's because they are not seen as a 'good' investment.

What do you get for investing in an F1 team? Largely the requirement to invest even more it making it competitive and then spending the same again to keep it there....
Moneyseeker is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Dec 2013, 05:12 (Ref:3341480)   #48
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
F1 financing....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-bling-LA.html
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Dec 2013, 07:05 (Ref:3341849)   #49
JacobP
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 495
JacobP should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
One thing I don't understand is where have all the good sponsors gone? How come the teams besides the most affluent four can't find a good sponsor? Why won't more of these companies advertize in F1?

Internet search engines
Social networks
Smartphone manufacturers
Apple, Dell, etc
Oil companies
Financial institutions
Software companies, anti-virus, etc.
Drinks companies (Monster, Coke, Pepsi, vodka, rum, etc )
Apparel
Tourism agencies ("Visit country X, or "Invest in X")
JacobP is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Dec 2013, 08:20 (Ref:3341871)   #50
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,547
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobP View Post
One thing I don't understand is where have all the good sponsors gone? How come the teams besides the most affluent four can't find a good sponsor? Why won't more of these companies advertize in F1?

Internet search engines
Social networks
Smartphone manufacturers
Apple, Dell, etc
Oil companies
Financial institutions
Software companies, anti-virus, etc.
Drinks companies (Monster, Coke, Pepsi, vodka, rum, etc )
Apparel
Tourism agencies ("Visit country X, or "Invest in X")
Part of it is the sheer size of budget needed for a mid field team, secondly F1 was weened of its tobacco additican in' 96, the loss of manufacturers and the banking crash all have had their effects. The manufacturers created a massive spending spree and then left leaving a hole that has yet to be filled. That all before we get to Bernie and CVC.

It also seems to be easier for teams to find drivers with money than find money themselves.
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone who can finance this beauty for me? Marcus666 Formula One 16 29 Sep 2012 18:03
Car Finance Carrie Road Car Forum 12 22 Mar 2002 12:35
F1 Finance & Bernie's Empire Schume Formula One 1 17 Jul 2000 16:42


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.