Group A BMW 635 CSi - a popular, solid performer

[brendonwood1]

So, let me clarify this in regard the ex-Synter CC cars.
Mike Newman acquired one in 1985 and continued to race it for several years and probably still owns it.
Frank Synter took one to NZ in early 1985 where he shared it with new owner John Morton. Morton kept this car for a few years and shared it with Jim Richards in the 1986 series. It was then sold to John Sorensen and raced by him for a few more years.
Charlie O'Brien acquired one car and brought it to Australia in time for the 1985 Bathurst 1000. He raced it for a few years and won the Pukekohe round of the 1986 Simpson series in this car.
Finally, an ex-Synter car was leased to Graeme Crosby/Lew McKinnon. They raced in the 1985 B&H 6 hour race at Pukekohe and won the 1986 Nissan Mobil series. I'm assuming they leased it from Graeme Lorimer who took it back, painted it in silver DSIR colours and raced it in the 1986 Bathurst 1000 and the various NZ races during 1986/87. The car was then sold to Warren McKellar, painted yellow (just like the Eggenburger display car earlier in this thread) and was raced by him for a few more years. This is the car discribed in a number of articles as "Chassis RA001" and is referred to as the "first" Group A BMW 635CSI.

So, we have four ex-Synter BMWs. Three were sold to NZ/Australia. All three had some level of success in NZ (Morton's car was 2nd in the 1985 Wellington Nissan Sport 500, Crosby won the 1986 Nissan Mobil series and O'Brien won the Pukekohe round of the 1986 Simpson series).
The two NZ based ex-Synter cars are both still in NZ as far as we can tell.

Have I got this summary right?

[MalcolmC]

Originally Posted by brendonwood1

Finally, an ex-Synter car was leased to Graeme Crosby/Lew McKinnon. They raced in the 1985 B&H 6 hour race at Pukekohe and won the 1986 Nissan Mobil series. I'm assuming they leased it from Graeme Lorimer ...

The two NZ based ex-Synter cars are both still in NZ as far as we can tell.

Have I got this summary right?

I'm not sure who owned the car when Crosby leased it. I was thinking that Sytner might have still owned the car, but actually the info I've posted above only says that Crosby was leasing an ex-Sytner car.
I also haven't seen the Eggenberger car since 2000, so whether it's still in the country, I'm not sure.
Other than that I fully agree with your summary.

The LHD Sytner/Morton car isn't proving to be too much of a problem. It's the fact that three RHD ex-Sytner cars were racing in '85 (Newman, O'Brien & Crosby), when there was only two in '84, that's a little difficult to sort out.

Malcolm

[chunterer]

That's true, although it does seem that we now know for sure that only one of the four cars was actually one of Frank's own cars, the other three being the CC cars he purchased to use himself before presumably changing his mind and selling them.

The most interesting aspects out of all of this is that spare car being converted and that all of the cars with the exception of the one sold onto Newman went to Australia or New Zealand and not Uk or Euro buyers.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

If the Crosby car is the CC Motorsport spare car, then it's a 1983-spec Eggenberger car, converted to RHD. The O'Brien car would have been a 1984-spec car, built up by CC Motorsport as an RHD car- Could CC have modified or replaced the cages of the race cars?

Ah ha, I had totally forgottten that we had started a chassis archive thread!

Look what I found posted by your goodself:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....36&postcount=7

Brendon and Michael it might be worth you guys having a look through this thread for further useful info about cars that may have ended up in the Antipodoes etc?

[brendonwood1]

Interesting to note that you say chassis RA001 was sold to Crosby. A few other sources suggest it was leased to Crosby. As Malcolm says, we aren't sure who owned it when Crosby raced it. Possibly Graham Lorimer or even still owned by Frank Synter?

[KA]

Originally Posted by brendonwood1

Interesting to note that you say chassis RA001 was sold to Crosby. A few other sources suggest it was leased to Crosby. As Malcolm says, we aren't sure who owned it when Crosby raced it. Possibly Graham Lorimer or even still owned by Frank Synter?

I suspect 'leased' may be more accurate, as I think some of the contemporary reports describe it as being leased rather than sold- IIRC that list I put together included a fair amount of guesswork based on sometimes contradictory info given in the 635 mega-thread... I'd definitely handle some of what I posted there with care...

No idea who owned actually owned it if it was actually leased by Crosby- not least because IIRC it was originally suggested in the 635 thread (as mentioned in that chassis archive post linked to) that Sytner sold it to a Belgian team.

If that bit is correct, then there's another step in the story- how it got from Belgium to NZ...it also suggests that the owner when Crosby leased it was either Australia or NZ-based, rather than still being Frank Sytner?

Frank seems to have got out of the 635 game altogether by the end of 1985, he didn't appear again in the BTCC until 1987 with the first Prodrive M3, and his only 1986 touring car drives were at the two British ETC rounds, buying rides in an Italian 635 and a German 325i respectively.

[MalcolmC]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ah ha, I had totally forgottten that we had started a chassis archive thread!

Look what I found posted by your goodself:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....36&postcount=7

Brendon and Michael it might be worth you guys having a look through this thread for further useful info about cars that may have ended up in the Antipodoes etc?

Oh well, I still had fun looking through the old race programmes and newspaper clippings.

Looking through the '635 Thread' Posts #57, 188 & 192 all confirm what we've (re)discovered. There's a photo of the Eggenberger car in CC colours in Post #159.

Something that doesn't tie up is that in Post #46 a letter from Frank Sytner stated that the Eggenberger car was sold to Jumet Motors to race in the 1985 Spa 24hr race.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-018.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-019.jpg
It seems surprising that one of these cars turned up at Pukekohe late in 1985 in Crosby's hands, back CC colours.

Fast forward to Oct '88 and the race programme for the Nissan Mobil 500 in Wellington includes:
"No.44, BMW 635CSi, Richard Gillies (NZ), Joe Sommariva (Aust.) ... Sommariva shared his BMW coupe with the owner of this car, Warren McKellar, at Sandown."

So it looks like the old girl had one more race left in her... or not.

From NZ Motoring News, Nov 4 1988, Pg 19. "Also non-started, victims of the FISA qualifying standards, were... the aging BMW 635CSi of Richard Gillies and Joe Sommariva".
FYI the car qualified with a time of 1:39:82, compared to Dick Johnson's Pole time of 1:29:75. However the McIntyre/Hyde 635 (a very late entry of the Archibald's car) qualified with a 1:37:09, started, and finished 6th (only 17 laps behind the Ravaglia/Pirro M3).

Fast forward to 2000 and the car is still wearing race No.44.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...2/Egg-BMWa.jpg

I also found a mention that the Eggenberger car was used in some club racing by John Sax during 1986 while Graham Lorimer owned the car.

Malcolm

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

Fast forward to 2000 and the car is still wearing race No.44.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...2/Egg-BMWa.jpg

I also found a mention that the Eggenberger car was used in some club racing by John Sax during 1986 while Graham Lorimer owned the car.

Malcolm

That 635 is still looking the same, it has been owned by the Hicks family since they purchased it in 1989! Still in RHD, with its aluminium roll cage. They will convert it back to its original LHD and give it their "usual" concours winning restoration when they get through all of the other restorations/builds that are in the queue

[KA]

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

Something that doesn't tie up is that in Post #46 a letter from Frank Sytner stated that the Eggenberger car was sold to Jumet Motors to race in the 1985 Spa 24hr race.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-018.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-019.jpg
It seems surprising that one of these cars turned up at Pukekohe late in 1985 in Crosby's hands, back CC colours.

Yes, that one's been puzzling me- both the Jumet cars are clearly LHD and blue/white, and as we've seen earlier in the thread, the 'Crosby' car arrived in NZ RHD and in CC colours...

Could the CC car have been sold to Jumet with the intention of racing it at Spa, but for some reason it wasn't used, and sold on by them to NZ shortly afterwards?

The alternative theory is that maybe Frank simply got his cars crossed up when writing that letter some years after the event- possible I guess, bearing in mind that by 1985, he seems to have owned (albeit briefly in some cases) every single UK-based Group A 635 apart from the ex Stuck/Kennedy BS Automotive car....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

Oh well, I still had fun looking through the old race programmes and newspaper clippings.

Looking through the '635 Thread' Posts #57, 188 & 192 all confirm what we've (re)discovered. There's a photo of the Eggenberger car in CC colours in Post #159.

Malcolm

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=159

Yes, and by the looks of this it has already been converted to rhd. It has both Weaver and Woodman's names on the side so I am even more inclined to think that it was run in the Donington 500 where it very nearly won until getting overhauled by the Percy Jaguar in the closing stages.....

[KA]

Weaver/Woodman at Donington
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-04-29-025.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57625798580441

They also seem to have taken a second car to act as a spare?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/estoril/2146115950/

[KA]

Just in case anyone got a nice Christmas bonus, or their Christmas presents in cash, and doesn't know what to buy themselves with it....

http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/141636/index.html

[chunterer]

Wow, she's a beaut!!

Hopefully someone will snap her up to do the JD Classics series.

[racer69]

This may have been dealt with earlier in the thread, but i found this little story in the August 1985 edition of "Chequered Flag" magazine, an old Australian monthly.

The main bits of the artcile;

Charlie O'Brien has joined the BMW ranks. The popular Gold Coaster has clinched a deal to run an ex-Schnitzer 635 in major events for the remainder of the 1985 Australian season.

And O'Brien has further secured the services of Belgian Michel Delcourt as his Bathurst James Hardie 1000 co-driver.

O'Brien has acquired the BMW - it is to be updated to the latest '85 Alpina specifications - after a lengthy appraisal exercise in Europe and Britain.

"The BMW program with start with Sandown and then Bathurst. We will do the Surfers round and then the Australian Grand Prix meeting as well" Charlie said

Obviously O'Brien ended up getting his car off Sytner and it didn't arrive until Bathurst (and lost the services of Delcourt).... i wonder which Schnitzer car he was getting?

[GTRMagic]

Presumably the James Hardie 1000 1985 2nd placed Bob Jane T Marts car... I mean Mr O'Brien raced with that team in the '86 enduros..

[david5]

I seem to remember Charlie contesting a race or more in Europe in a 635, maybe BTCC ??

[KA]

Originally Posted by david5

I seem to remember Charlie contesting a race or more in Europe in a 635, maybe BTCC ??

He did the ETC round at Donington in May, with Graham Baker. They shared a Volvo, leased from a Swedish team and entered under the 'Erle McRae Racing' banner.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-05-05-017.jpg

I wonder if this was the trip where the deal to buy the ex-BMW GB 635 from Sytner was done?

[david5]

Originally Posted by KA

He did the ETC round at Donington in May, with Graham Baker. They shared a Volvo, leased from a Swedish team and entered under the 'Erle McRae Racing' tbanner.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-05-05-017.jpg

I wonder if this was the trip where the deal to buy the ex-BMW GB 635 from Sytner was done?

That may be what I was thinking of, I think I have a mag with a piccy of him standing next to the car in the field having dnfed , I'll see if I can find it.

[KA]

Think I know the pic you're thinking of- it might also have been printed in that year's Bathurst annual. IIRC the car pulled off onto the infield with a fire under the bonnet...

Funnily enough, in the run-up to the Donington race, Autosport in the UK were reporting that O'Brien would be taking the Volvo back to Australia for the ATCC, though apparently the content of the article was pretty inaccurate over the origin of the car. No mention of 635s at that time though...

[chunterer]

It seems Frank may have put his 'Sytner BMW' hat on at that meeting and steered him away from the Ovlov.

'You don't need an unreliable swedish turbo car charlie, you need the smooth bullet proof image that only a 635 can provide`

[chavez]

Spending my time over New year reliving the '85 ATCC and AEC.

During the commentary for the Sandown 500, Will Hagon mentions that Charlie O'Brien purchased the Sytner BMW plus spare for less than a second hand Group A Commodore which Hagon says were going for AUD$70,000.

Admittedly second hand Group A Commodores must have been fairly thin on the ground in September '85. But less the $70k of the Bimmer and spares was probably a pretty good deal.

[Lew MacKinnon]

Nice to see there is some interest in the events of 1986! For the record:

The RHD 635CSi (001) was leased from Sytner via Aucklander John Morton. Morton actually drove a LHD 635 in the 1985 Wellington Street Race with Frank Sytner (whilst I drove a locally built VK Commodore). In fact, there is speculation to this day that Morton / Sytner actually won the 1985 race but were pushed back into 2nd due to lap scoring errors by the officials! But I digress...

I actually leased the car and it came to NZ under bond. The car was raced in South Africa in 1985 / returned to the UK / was rebuilt by the late Ted Grace and sent to NZ for the 1986 races. It arrived in NZ in BMW UK livery. Morton actually put Crosby and I together - and after the 1986 Nissan Mobil Series (in yellow and blue colours), the car had to leave the country - only to return a year later in the hands of Graeme Lorimer (raced under DSIR colours). IIRC, Lorimer purchased it and later sold it to Warren McKellar. McKellar approached me and I actually helped with the set up of the car for subsequent racing. Unfortunately, McKellar had no racing licence / no motorsport experience at all and had to go to Australia to get a provisional licence by paying for a drive with Joe Sommariva in another LHD 635. For McKellar it was a baptism by fire and when he failed to qualify for the next Nissan Mobil in Wellington, I moved into commentary work with TVNZ and he put the car away.

As part of the lease, Ted Grace came to NZ with the RHD car and was instrumental in preparation / running the car. For the 86 Nissan Mobil, Crosby and I shared pits / facilities / info etc with Morton and Jim Richards - Richards, of course, drove the JPS BMW 635 for many years at Bathurst etc and won on several occasions in a Holden with the late Peter Brock.

The BMW's series success in the 86 series was due to all the stars being aligned in our favour - for sure. But the result still looks the same in the book.

Apologies for the long winded post - but hopefully this will help join the dots.

[Lew MacKinnon]

Originally Posted by chunterer

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...-10_BMW-22.jpg

Being rhd is that one one of the ex Sytner, previously CC cars that went over?

This photo was taken at scrutineering in Wellington for the 1988(?) race and of 'my old' 635CSi (001) that was leased from Sytner for the 1986 series / sent back out of NZ as it was under bond / purchased by Graeme Lorimer for 87 / later sold to Warren McKellar. I was actually cross entered in case of problems during the lead up to the event but never got behind the wheel. Unfortunately, McKellar and Allan Prince were unable to get the required pace from the car and did not make the qualifying cut off.

In the photo, I'm on the wheel / Allan Prince is at the right rear / Graeme Paynter is by the left door / McKellar is left rear and one of the spanners is doing the work...

[KA]

Originally Posted by Lew MacKinnon

I actually leased the car and it came to NZ under bond. The car was raced in South Africa in 1985 / returned to the UK / was rebuilt by the late Ted Grace and sent to NZ for the 1986 races. It arrived in NZ in BMW UK livery. Morton actually put Crosby and I together - and after the 1986 Nissan Mobil Series (in yellow and blue colours), the car had to leave the country - only to return a year later in the hands of Graeme Lorimer (raced under DSIR colours).

Hi Lew, welcome aboard! It's always good when someone turns up on here who was actually involved with the cars we're talking about.

Interesting that South Africa crops up in the story again- if 'your' car was raced in SA, I wonder if it was Tony Viana? a very wellknown South African BMW racer of the period, and one of the drivers who drove the second Sytner 635 at the 1985 Silverstone TT?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45161394@N05/

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Hi Lew, welcome aboard! It's always good when someone turns up on here who was actually involved with the cars we're talking about.

Interesting that South Africa crops up in the story again- if 'your' car was raced in SA, I wonder if it was Tony Viana? a very wellknown South African BMW racer of the period, and one of the drivers who drove the second Sytner 635 at the 1985 Silverstone TT?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45161394@N05/

Yes that was what sprung to mind for me too?

If it did go to SA and Viana was the keeper/driver, it begs the questions as to what series it raced in as i'm pretty sure there wasn't a Group A series at the time, the national series being to a variation on the Group 1 regs?