[BTCC] BTCC 2018 Rumours & Silly Season

[BobJones]

Aaah, Autosport International.

Fun interviews from the stage on the Autosport YouTube channel.

Plato was there with his daughter, and then Shedden, Neal, Sutton, Turkington and Jordan several times as a group. Well worth a watch.

Well, apart from when Neal had no idea about the new 2018 BTCC rules, swore on stage and called Sutton transgender. Muppet.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Steel Wheels

He pretty much said as much asked when chatting with him at ASI. He said they weren’t using Geoff Kingston much as only making operational changes to the car, hence Geoff’s move to a ‘new challenge’.

Still can’t help feeling they might not be a one car team this year!

Where is the Handy Toyota? Did they strip it for parts for the Alfa or is it a living breathing beast in hibernation?

[Spanner monkey]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I still don't understand this mysterious problem with Platos car after that crash. Plato has been talking about it for race weekend after race weekend. He's still talking about it in terms of it being a mystery now, months after the season end, and presumably whilst preparations for this next season are in full swing.

I don't like Plato, but begrudgingly you have to respect his speed and consistency year after year. There has to be some explanation as to why he all of a sudden had such a poor season.

I thought they had a test when he drove Suttons car, to compare the two and sort this out? I'm no engineer, so perhaps someone could explain what it could possibly be. I know they are not an F1 team with a Zillion dollar budget, but surely you would expect them to get to the bottom of it after a race weekend or two?

Will the team give him a brand new car for this season, or reshell his old one? Or are we going to hear much more about this mysterious problem?

After his shunt at Brands the car went back to Willy Pooles so you can't blame the shell 😂
On Snett race weekend the mechanics swapped Jasons front subframe for a new one... so you cant blame the subframe.😂
At the Snet test in june or july Jason and Ash swapped cars... and Ash went faster in Jasons car 🤔

[psq43]

Originally Posted by Spanner monkey

After his shunt at Brands the car went back to Willy Pooles so you can't blame the shell ��
On Snett race weekend the mechanics swapped Jasons front subframe for a new one... so you cant blame the subframe.��
At the Snet test in june or july Jason and Ash swapped cars... and Ash went faster in Jasons car ��

Here's what I, and others think

Jason had a new exciting team mate, who oozes raw speed, with a natural ability to drag the very best out of whatever he's got. Jason was over confident given his years experience with the car, over his new team mate. Jason lost both the best rear wheel drive driver, AND engineer over the winter, and some minor rule changes to the base is car....add all that together and maybe it and the shunt rattled him down a peg.

Over

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by psq43

Here's what I, and others think

Jason had a new exciting team mate, who oozes raw speed, with a natural ability to drag the very best out of whatever he's got. Jason was over confident given his years experience with the car, over his new team mate. Jason lost both the best rear wheel drive driver, AND engineer over the winter, and some minor rule changes to the base is car....add all that together and maybe it and the shunt rattled him down a peg.

Over

Could simply be that; even more simply that crash - which obviously physically hurt him - may have also mentally left him lacking his usual confidence and God given belief. Most racers I know think they are indestructible. I had a massive shunt on track in '93 and didn't even want to sit in a vehicle for several years... a mental block in laymans terms.

[S griffin]

While he was good mid season, some races he just seemed to have no fight, like in the finale at Brands Hatch. If he is back with BMR he may still win a few races, but can he win another title? Might be a step too far

[mark_l]

Pit to Car radio "OK, so Ash is faster than you, can you confirm you understood that message"

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I still don't understand this mysterious problem with Platos car after that crash. Plato has been talking about it for race weekend after race weekend. He's still talking about it in terms of it being a mystery now, months after the season end, and presumably whilst preparations for this next season are in full swing.

I don't like Plato, but begrudgingly you have to respect his speed and consistency year after year. There has to be some explanation as to why he all of a sudden had such a poor season.

But it's not all of a sudden.
It's been a decline over the course of the last three seasons.
The second half of 2015, he only got two wins after Oulton Park, both in reverse grid races where he started at the front. Yes he finished second in the championship, but the decline began that year.

2016 was the worst season of his career. Or it was until 2017 came along.

I thought they had a test when he drove Suttons car, to compare the two and sort this out? I'm no engineer, so perhaps someone could explain what it could possibly be. I know they are not an F1 team with a Zillion dollar budget, but surely you would expect them to get to the bottom of it after a race weekend or two?

Sutton was faster that Plato in Plato's car. He was also just as fast as he had been in his own car. Plato was slower than Sutton in Sutton's car.

Will the team give him a brand new car for this season, or reshell his old one? Or are we going to hear much more about this mysterious problem?

The problem is the carbon-based component that fits between the seat and the steering wheel.

[AdrianM]

So what's the conspiracy theorists suggestions for why Plato and Sutton would both say that the identically setup cars behaved totally differently from each other at the test then?

[psq43]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

So what's the conspiracy theorists suggestions for why Plato and Sutton would both say that the identically setup cars behaved totally differently from each other at the test then?

Conspiracy as in 9/11 didn't happen? Or 7/7 was an inside job?

It could just be that identical set ups only really, as in REALLY give identical results with near identical driving styles and that we know they both do not have

[Alfisti]

So in 2015 JP became very vocal about boost as the season progressed and grumbled about the TOCA engine. I'll call that true as it was slow where it should have been fast; slippery shape that VW. Damned near had the Championship, Flashs last race charge was astonishing. JP form = good.

16 was decent once Colin and he sussed the motors out - Oulton IIRC. Colin was better than JP IMO but lets face it - Colin is bloody brilliant. I presume their was sod all testing budget; certainly 3 of the 4 Subarus hadn't ran until Brands race weekend (again IIRC). JP form = good.

17 - iffy from the start. Plato seemingly done for at Brands after that shunt. Ash got better each meeting. No testing again; seemingly no pennies - possibly due to the 888 bailout and this is a popular rumour as to the falling out. If JP had had a car on track he might well have identified and sorted the car issues (and indeed any Plato issues). Yes, they did test at Snetterton but that was half a season wasted by that point. JP form = not like him at all.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by psq43

Conspiracy as in 9/11 didn't happen? Or 7/7 was an inside job?

It could just be that identical set ups only really, as in REALLY give identical results with near identical driving styles and that we know they both do not have

That doesn't apply when each driver has tried both cars though and reported that each one behaves differently though.

Driving style would only come into it if they set both cars up the same way and each driver stuck to the same car.

[HopAlong]

Remember there was a problem with the differential that was only discovered and fixed mid season, so it couldn't have been that.

It seemed to me every time a problem was found and fixed, and the results didn't pick up a new one was found. Chassis, front sub-frame and diff ramps.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by HopAlong

Remember there was a problem with the differential that was only discovered and fixed mid season, so it couldn't have been that.

It seemed to me every time a problem was found and fixed, and the results didn't pick up a new one was found. Chassis, front sub-frame and diff ramps.

The diff issue was found just before Knockhill, funnily enough. A track that inherently suits cars with enhanced traction (RWD in this era, Quattro in the other). Plato wins, claims gremlin is solved. Then for Silverstone and Brands is off the pace again. Weird, that.

[S griffin]

Yes it's funny how he seemed to find some of that old magic again at Knockhill and Rockingham after the diff was sorted, although he was helped a bit in winning at Knockhill by being last man across the line in quali and thus getting pole. Then he seemed unable to support Ash at Silverstone and Brands

[KA]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

So what's the conspiracy theorists suggestions for why Plato and Sutton would both say that the identically setup cars behaved totally differently from each other at the test then?

Originally Posted by AdrianM

That doesn't apply when each driver has tried both cars though and reported that each one behaves differently though.

Driving style would only come into it if they set both cars up the same way and each driver stuck to the same car.

I'm thinking of a story I remember from Moto GP, so it's kind of off-topic, but IIRC one of the things that Casey Stoner said about the Ducati during his time there was that you could put an identical set-up on two different chassis and they'd behave diffierently, the theory was that there was an inconsistency in the manufacture of the frames.

Maybe somewhere between the repaired chassis damage from Brands, the diff, the subframe, and whatever was going on in JP's head, there was some gremlin that accounts for what Plato and Sutton said about the car- and maybe Sutton, with less experience of the Scooby, and therefore less 'baggage' about how it had handled in '16, found it easier to adapt when he tested JP's car?

[Bramzel]

So, about that 2018 season...

[Overboost]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

So, about that 2018 season...

Hi guys, long time reader, but refrained from posting until now........

BMR, very interesting, one TBL sold already (before the November deadline), so maximum of 3 cars. Biggest issue being that unless Sutton & Plato (if he does indeed sign as expected) have strong legs and peddle Flintstone style, how they power the cars cold be interesting. Mountune haven't been paid so aren't planning on supplying them this year, so they either need a new engine tuner or will have to bolt a TOCA unit in! The latter however will do away with one of the supposed advantages of the boxer engine.

Maybe JP's promised to bring money to pay the engine bill, so him and Warren have kissed and made up!?!

Might as well come in with a BANG!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Overboost

Hi guys, long time reader, but refrained from posting until now........

BMR, very interesting, one TBL sold already (before the November deadline), so maximum of 3 cars. Biggest issue being that unless Sutton & Plato (if he does indeed sign as expected) have strong legs and peddle Flintstone style, how they power the cars cold be interesting. Mountune haven't been paid so aren't planning on supplying them this year, so they either need a new engine tuner or will have to bolt a TOCA unit in! The latter however will do away with one of the supposed advantages of the boxer engine.

Maybe JP's promised to bring money to pay the engine bill, so him and Warren have kissed and made up!?!

Might as well come in with a BANG!

Wow! Rumours from the farm have long suggested finances were properly screwed, will the Flintstone power unit meet regs? How will Mr Gow turn the boost down - swap trainers for pit boots?

The Boxer advantage was supposedly negated by the addition of weight to raise the centre of gravity - last years pre-season grumbles - so the TOCA unit may be no bad thing. Although they don't come free in boxes of cereal either, so $$$ will have to come from somewhere.

Wonder who has the TBL - I wonder if it and the Handy Toyota have become a pair in Sandbach.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Wow! Rumours from the farm have long suggested finances were properly screwed, will the Flintstone power unit meet regs? How will Mr Gow turn the boost down - swap trainers for pit boots?

The Boxer advantage was supposedly negated by the addition of weight to raise the centre of gravity - last years pre-season grumbles - so the TOCA unit may be no bad thing. Although they don't come free in boxes of cereal either, so $$$ will have to come from somewhere.

Wonder who has the TBL - I wonder if it and the Handy Toyota have become a pair in Sandbach.

I don't know how much money (if any) Subaru are putting into this effort, but they're always making great play of their boxer engines. I can't see them (if they are financially involved) accepting the team runnung a straight four TOCA engine.

[one_day]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I don't know how much money (if any) Subaru are putting into this effort, but they're always making great play of their boxer engines. I can't see them (if they are financially involved) accepting the team runnung a straight four TOCA engine.

They could take the boxer engines to Swindon

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by one_day

They could take the boxer engines to Swindon

I've heard that rumour as well, but would expect Swindon to want paying for the engines, so wouldn't be so keen knowing that Mountune are still owed from last season... Let's face it, the engine were clearly very strong in the Subaru's last year.

[andy97]

Take the prize for one of the most interesting first posts ever!

Interesting that the reigning champion may not have an engine for this season, with all the knock on implications for testing etc, even if he does get one. Wonder if Mr Gow will get involved?

[BLiTZ]

From a casual observer's point of view, it's always appeared that Plato brings the big money to the team. Turkington has a few personal sponsors, as does Cole (given the prominent Ticketmaster branding, maybe more so than the Irishman). Last year Sutton appeared to have even less personal backing as there were few extra stickers on his car.

Now assuming that Plato's sponsor deals are funding the whole operation, there's still a chance that the deals focus on his success, and with him doing so badly last year perhaps he's not met his part of the contract and sponsors are finding a get out clause to not stump up the cash, to put it simply...

"Nut's to Sutton winning the championship, the deal was to see you (Plato) on the top step. That's not happened so you've not lived up to the deal!" etc etc

Couple that with Plato/BMR's money being used to bail out 888 and give BKR's staff a job and you can see why things could be a little thin.

You've also got to see if Subaru UK feel like they've got anything more left to achieve and whether it's worth the expense again.

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by one_day

They could take the boxer engines to Swindon

Interesting, I heard that too! Couldn’t work out why, but would make sense now! Providing they have funds to pay of course..........