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Old 22 Nov 2017, 07:51 (Ref:3782136)   #46
HDTVKSS
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For Webber, he needed a tyre he could lean on like the Bridgestones. he was never as comfortable with the Pirellis and couldnt get the most out of them like Vettel could.

Newey in his book details that Webber was very good with Aero feedback (something he points out they have been missing since) while Vettel looked a lot at getting the most out of the tyres and spent a lot of time with the engineers getting on top of that.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 10:49 (Ref:3782167)   #47
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If we're going down the route of using single seasons to prove points (Webber didn't out drive Vettel in 2010, but for the sake of discussion we can say he did), then DC beat Webber in 2007 (and also Hakkinen in 2001), and therefore is much better than both! Of course I'm joking, and these single year comparisons aren't worth a huge amount.

Back to the topic of Mercedes and DR - I'm yet to see a good reason why Mercedes would employ him. He's not a bad driver, but I don't know what it would add to Mercedes. And if the discussion is true that DR is now considered the second best at RBR, what use would Mercedes have for him? They'd be employing someone that someone else has already decided isn't good enough to retain?

I just don't see why Mercedes would go this route. I can see why DR fans want it, but the same argument can be made for anyone on the grid.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 16:42 (Ref:3782226)   #48
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Only one crash for Vettel? Have you forgotten Spa when he lost control and harpooned Button or to an extent Silvertsone by not giving Hamilton enough room at the first corner and puncturing his tyre
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 18:54 (Ref:3782244)   #49
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Back to the topic of Mercedes and DR - I'm yet to see a good reason why Mercedes would employ him. He's not a bad driver, but I don't know what it would add to Mercedes. And if the discussion is true that DR is now considered the second best at RBR, what use would Mercedes have for him? They'd be employing someone that someone else has already decided isn't good enough to retain?

I just don't see why Mercedes would go this route. I can see why DR fans want it, but the same argument can be made for anyone on the grid.
i suppose marketability would be a reason.

i actually think DR is a much better and far more aggressive driver (more of a winners instinct if you will) then Bottas...but for arguments sake lets say DR and VB are equal in ability and both seem like good guys so team harmony with LH would remain intact, then surely a global brand like Merc should go with the driver they think will help them sell more cars.

dont like the notion of boiling things down to who has a bigger social media footprint and on its own its not a good reason...but if all other things are equal then surely popularity/branding is a factor to consider.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 19:21 (Ref:3782247)   #50
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i suppose marketability would be a reason.

i actually think DR is a much better and far more aggressive driver (more of a winners instinct if you will) then Bottas...but for arguments sake lets say DR and VB are equal in ability and both seem like good guys so team harmony with LH would remain intact, then surely a global brand like Merc should go with the driver they think will help them sell more cars.

dont like the notion of boiling things down to who has a bigger social media footprint and on its own its not a good reason...but if all other things are equal then surely popularity/branding is a factor to consider.
Marketability is a good point, although Mercedes doesn't seem to care about that. They made that really weird choice to try and make Lewis win the race rather than the title late last year, despite it making them look a bit odd. You're absolutely spot on that DR is more marketable, but that doesn't seem to be a Mercedes thing (ironically it's more of an RBR thing...!). No idea why that would be, tbh.

DR is probably a better driver than Bottas. Certainly more aggressive. But do Mercedes want more drama when they're winning both titles anyway? I'm not so sure. I think they prefer headlines like "Mercedes wins both titles" than "Mercedes drivers feuding". From a cold marketing view, I can see why they'd be happy with Bottas being second best.

DR has another year at RBR, right? So he has time to recover this Verstappen situation and solve it anyway.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 20:23 (Ref:3782255)   #51
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Marketability is a good point, although Mercedes doesn't seem to care about that. They made that really weird choice to try and make Lewis win the race rather than the title late last year, despite it making them look a bit odd. You're absolutely spot on that DR is more marketable, but that doesn't seem to be a Mercedes thing (ironically it's more of an RBR thing...!). No idea why that would be, tbh.

DR is probably a better driver than Bottas. Certainly more aggressive. But do Mercedes want more drama when they're winning both titles anyway? I'm not so sure. I think they prefer headlines like "Mercedes wins both titles" than "Mercedes drivers feuding". From a cold marketing view, I can see why they'd be happy with Bottas being second best.

DR has another year at RBR, right? So he has time to recover this Verstappen situation and solve it anyway.
I think the difference between RBR and MB marketing is the focus of their message.

MB is about the car - because that is their business.
RBR is about the person - because they want people to buy into the lifestyle.

Personalty and charisma are behind the Red Bull message, as shown by the number of Red Bull 'athletes' they back in various sports. In a strange way, Hamilton is a bad fit for Mercedes - so it only goes to show how much they value his performances on track that they will overlook his lack of 'corporate sensibility'.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3782256)   #52
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But do Mercedes want more drama when they're winning both titles anyway?
difficult question.

while Merc (or at least Lauda) seemed massively gutted when Nico announced his retirement, i suspect that on the inside they must have felt like they dodged a bullet in form of how potentially difficult the 2017 LH vs NR pairing could have been.

so im not sure if Merc want the drama that comes with 2 drivers both looking to win the title at the same time. in the past they put up with it but after 2016 they may have had enough of it.

but that was then and now they have a serious challenge coming from Ferrari....and i suppose as long as Ferrari retain Kimi then its suits Merc fine to have a clear 1 and 2 as do their adversary.

but yeah, one more year for DR and one more year for VB to step up his game and for sure one if not both will be moving teams imo. fun times ahead!
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 20:49 (Ref:3782261)   #53
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...In a strange way, Hamilton is a bad fit for Mercedes - so it only goes to show how much they value his performances on track that they will overlook his lack of 'corporate sensibility'.
is he though?

seems to me that LH is selling a lifestyle ideally suited to peddle cars to both demographics which Merc currently covet...younger demo looking to lease or buy (but probably lease) an 'affordable' entry level car like their A-Class as well as being able to target the young jet set type who can afford to buy (or their parents can afford to buy them) their multi million dollar Project One supercars.

but as this thread is about DR, i think these are also demos where DR would also succeed at reaching...no doubt in part because of the exposure and persona he has attained via his RB association.

but all that said...who really knows if drivers really have that much effect on car sales anyways.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 20:58 (Ref:3782264)   #54
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seems to me that LH is selling a lifestyle ideally suited to peddle cars to both demographics which Merc currently covet...younger demo looking to lease or buy (but probably lease) an 'affordable' entry level car like their A-Class as well as being able to target the young jet set type who can afford to buy (or their parents can afford to buy them) their multi million dollar Project One supercars.
Possibly, so in a little experiment I am going to make a blind visit to both Mercedes website and the AMG F1 website straight after posting this.
Afterwards, will post the the results to see if DR appears to fit in with the current 'messages'.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 21:06 (Ref:3782265)   #55
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And the results are in....

The main messages on the Mercedes Website are the GLA, GLC and a 4Matic promotion.
GLA would appear to be the closest fit to an F1 audience (if connected to 'flamboyant' or 'charismatic' drivers). A closer look at the GLA makes a passing reference to a 'motorsport-style' cluster so a tenuous link to F1 and the driver(s). No fit for DR here in a marketing sense.

The main messages on the F1 site are a celebration of results this season, and promotion of an app. Alongside this, there is an insight into the workings of a pit stop. Again, nothing that relates to driver's style of charisma, opposed to just recognising on-track results.

What does this show? Well in a highly unscientific test - there appears to be nothing gained from MB in signing DR if they maintain their current stance in the marketing sphere.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 21:46 (Ref:3782271)   #56
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well at least we agree that it was unscientific!

but yeah probably not any over riding reason to Merc's benefit to sign DR. as Akrapovic said, wining titles without drama is far more important to them.

but as a fan of the sport, i think it would be a far more inspired and interesting pairing then their current line up so im still going to root for that change.

no disrespect to VB but i saw that this year and, imo, it left me wanting to see something else.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3782277)   #57
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loon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ricciardo or Bottas? I suspect Merc will sign Ocon
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 22:13 (Ref:3782279)   #58
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well at least we agree that it was unscientific!
Being too scientific leads to 4 successive WCCs and WSCs, something which is clearly bad for the sport as it draws no end of criticism.

So I'm rooting for a non-scientific approach where drivers are paired to cause confrontation, and results are unpredictable. And that means Mercedes must sign DR.

But remember, that approach will then see him in a car that won't be as reliable, Renault will start winning titles and everyone will say that if Ricciardo was there he'd destroy their existing drivers!

Unless - Daniel has something else to offer Mercedes that differs from just on-track results?
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 00:45 (Ref:3782306)   #59
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Skam85 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
DR beat Vettel in "his" team, Hamilton and Vettel are essentially equal...

DR shouldn't be worried about going up against Lewis in a Merc
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 13:30 (Ref:3782425)   #60
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The thing is Lewis is now in his 30s. So Mercedes maybe need another top driver for the future
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