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Old 27 Mar 2017, 12:53 (Ref:3721847)   #1
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I was slightly surprised during yesterday's coverage of the GP when Ben Edwards remarked on this being Sauber's 25th anniversary in F1 and DC remarked that it had been "25 years of mediocracy". Ignore for a moment that "mediocracy" isn't a word, it just struck me as rather harsh (unusually so for DC). It's true Sauber have only one race victory to their name, but the sport needs mid-grid teams and Sauber are now one of the longest-established teams in the sport. Was Coulthard being unfair?
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 13:42 (Ref:3721858)   #2
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I was slightly surprised during yesterday's coverage of the GP when Ben Edwards remarked on this being Sauber's 25th anniversary in F1 and DC remarked that it had been "25 years of mediocracy". Ignore for a moment that "mediocracy" isn't a word, it just struck me as rather harsh (unusually so for DC). It's true Sauber have only one race victory to their name, but the sport needs mid-grid teams and Sauber are now one of the longest-established teams in the sport. Was Coulthard being unfair?
Mediocracy - it is a word, but not in the context DC meant it (I think).
Unless he was passing a comment on the whole of F1? Or the Ferrari bonuses in recent years?
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 19:10 (Ref:3721929)   #3
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Sauber have had some good seasons, even outside of the BMW era. Think 2001, when the combined efforts of Heidfeld and Raikkonen got them 4th in the constructors
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 20:18 (Ref:3721951)   #4
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did he say mediocracy or mediocrity?

regardless, as a one time supporter of Sauber, they used to be the epitome of an underdog team, often punching above their weight class, with an owner who loved racing so for sure if applied to that Sauber team, DC's comments are unfair. that was a truly class racing operation.

however, Kaltenborn's tenure as team principle has not been good. mediocre, or whatever derivation of that word, feels like an apt description.
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 22:55 (Ref:3721985)   #5
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Every year the motorsport press trot out the story about how Sauber has the best wind tunnels in the world... and every year (of recent note) the car shows up with few brands on it, and usually is towards the back of the field.

In comparison to their sportscar heritage, Sauber have underperformed massively. The difference of course is budget, but it isn't likely the only distinction.
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 23:31 (Ref:3721991)   #6
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Every year the motorsport press trot out the story about how Sauber has the best wind tunnels in the world... and every year (of recent note) the car shows up with few brands on it, and usually is towards the back of the field.

In comparison to their sportscar heritage, Sauber have underperformed massively. The difference of course is budget, but it isn't likely the only distinction.
2016 Ferrari engines would consign the best car on the grid to the back, year old development limited technology just won't do!

The FIA should not allow a manufacturer to supply this engine onto the grid. The homologation of the engines would prevent the manufacturers supplying their customers with out of date and out of spec rubbish!

Last edited by wnut; 27 Mar 2017 at 23:47.
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 23:36 (Ref:3721993)   #7
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2016 Ferrari engines would consign the best car on the grid to the back, year old development limited technology just won't do!
Sure, but this was the WORKS Mercedes team in Sportscars... they had Ilmor/Mercedes powerplants... they had what looked to be strong budgets... they were the works BMW team...

Woulda coulda shoulda...

They are the underdog team to support & cheer for.. but you can't help but wonder whether a metric shedload of $$ would make any difference at all...
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 00:12 (Ref:3721996)   #8
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Agreed, there has probably been considerable staff movement, but, with no engine their work is impossible to assess.

Their drivers are also a problem, Giovanazzi would apparently have made Q2 if not for a small mistake late in his final lap. Bit of a worry when it is the first time he has driven the car!

Just can't answer how good the car is?
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3722136)   #9
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steve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Sauber looked more competitive than they did during testing.

A shed load of money would enable them to move up the grid, I'm sure. But the ridiculous cost of the engines have led them to be where they are, and the podiums finishes that Perez brought seem a very long time ago now.

F1 needs to look after the likes of Force India and Sauber.
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 13:18 (Ref:3722142)   #10
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F1 needs to look after the likes of Force India and Sauber.
Just for the sake of discussion - why should Force India and Sauber be afforded any protection from the F1 seniority?

I wonder would the same have been said in 2005 say of BAR and Minardi?
The demise of BAR and Minardi has led to Mercedes and STR on the grid - I don't see an argument that either of those is bad for the sport.

{for the record, I would not like to see the demise of either Sauber or FI, but teams have come and gone since the birth of F1}
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 13:50 (Ref:3722149)   #11
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I think a stronger argument is not that Sauber or Force India need to be afforded any particular protection but that F1 needs to look at why smaller teams are struggling.
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 13:58 (Ref:3722152)   #12
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I think a stronger argument is not that Sauber or Force India need to be afforded any particular protection but that F1 needs to look at why smaller teams are struggling.
But haven't smaller teams always struggled?

Do you mean specifically financially, or performance wise?
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 14:21 (Ref:3722158)   #13
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But haven't smaller teams always struggled?

Do you mean specifically financially, or performance wise?
They get less money for finishing last than the likes of Ferrari would. In that sense the scales are stacked against them before anyone has turned a wheel.
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 14:22 (Ref:3722159)   #14
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
We can't afford to lose anymore teams in F1, at least an interview on Channel 4 wiht one of the new executives of the sport seems to suggest they are intent on getting more teams in F1, which the sooner it happens the better
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 15:33 (Ref:3722179)   #15
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They get less money for finishing last than the likes of Ferrari would. In that sense the scales are stacked against them before anyone has turned a wheel.
Weren't the scales stacked against Mercedes and Red Bull before they turned a wheel?
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