Will the Mazda P2 cars ever be competitive?

[Danathar]

I know that they are making improvements, but I'm starting to wonder if it's even attainable with the current configuration.

Secondly, will the series ALLOW them to be competitive and fight for overall wins once and IF they ever get the car within shooting range of a victory? (tin foil hat statement)

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Danathar

I know that they are making improvements, but I'm starting to wonder if it's even attainable with the current configuration.

Secondly, will the series ALLOW them to be competitive and fight for overall wins once and IF they ever get the car within shooting range of a victory? (tin foil hat statement)

They need a new engine. They must go to a petrol engine if they want win races

[tux]

They dont need to go petrol, for sure it would be easier for them if they went for a pure petrol race engine but for marketing reasons they want to run a diesel engine built from as many street parts as possible. It was mentioned during the broadcast yesterday that they are 100bhp down on where they need to be.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by tux

They dont need to go petrol, for sure it would be easier for them if they went for a pure petrol race engine but for marketing reasons they want to run a diesel engine built from as many street parts as possible. It was mentioned during the broadcast yesterday that they are 100bhp down on where they need to be.

The last week Sportscar 365 say that they can move to petrol engine in the future

[joeb]

They led the race over the weekend, showed tremendous fuel economy and nearly stayed ahead of all the PC cars (35 seconds behind PC winner). Yes they were 2 laps down at the end but 7th overall isn't too bad is it?

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by tux

They dont need to go petrol, for sure it would be easier for them if they went for a pure petrol race engine but for marketing reasons they want to run a diesel engine built from as many street parts as possible. It was mentioned during the broadcast yesterday that they are 100bhp down on where they need to be.

The funny part is they chose to use the diesel in the race car because it's based on the same engine that's supposed to be available on the Mazda 6 sedan. Except the new 6 has now been out for two years, but the diesel engine has seen countless delays and still isn't available for consumers to purchase.

Have to wonder if they're really happy running around in last place with that diesel now as it won't actually have much marketing value until they have it in the road car, too.

[BullMan]

Not with that useless diesel engine and the ages old chassis.

[kvenom]

Wonder how much time they would lop off if they were using a Ligier chassis? That Lola chassis has been around for 7+ years.

[MoMedic9019]

Their specific Lola's haven't been around for 7+ years... those were a few of the NOS that were on hand after Lola closed.(I agree though...they could use some new stuff)

The idea that they are going to take pure street-spec parts put them in a car, and run, and be competitive was stupid from the start. But, Japan and Mazda are committed...eventually they will get through the stuff that breaks, or just decide to switch to race-spec stuff. At some point they will need to commit to that, or abandon as is.

It would seem as if the Skyactiv-D program in commercial terms hasn't been very successful.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by tux

They dont need to go petrol, for sure it would be easier for them if they went for a pure petrol race engine but for marketing reasons they want to run a diesel engine built from as many street parts as possible. It was mentioned during the broadcast yesterday that they are 100bhp down on where they need to be.

This is the article of John Dagys of the last week with Doonan (Mazda)

The biggest question at the moment is on the engine front, with Mazda’s 2.2-liter SKYACTIV turbo diesel doubtful of being eligible under the new ruleset due to a likely move to gasoline-only engines for the P2 platform worldwide.

However, with the TUDOR Championship set to embrace multiple engine manufacturers, it still provides Mazda a platform to compete, but with what engine?

“We’re having major strategy discussions about right now,” Doonan said. “Diesels are going to be relevant for a couple more years but what can we do? Can we develop a bespoke motor?

“You [can] start with a road car engine, which is our story. That’s a difficult path, as we’ve proven here, but it also helps us find the limits of those components.

“Years ago, we developed a bespoke engine with AER and ran it from ’07 until 2012. There’s that existing motor. Do we work with a new partner? We’re in the midst of looking at all kinds of options.”

Doonan even hasn’t ruled out a switch to a gasoline-powered engine for next year, in order to possibly get a jump start on 2017, although he said a decision has yet to be made.

“If what we’re doing here doesn’t help the marketing and communications story around the brand or a specific nameplate or diesel launch, it shouldn’t be done,” he said.

“That’s the biggest reason to continue what we’re doing. The diesel has already launched in Europe and Japan. As the plans for a diesel road car in the U.S. continue to develop, I’d love, for whatever we do, to be supporting that.

“At the moment, we’re committed to running the rest of ’15 with diesel. I’m hoping to get some more direction from the executive teams in the next couple of weeks.”

http://sportscar365.com/industry/doo...2-regulations/

[BudLightJaguar]

With the current specifications no. To be competitive, at least they'd need an engine with larger displacement to match hp with other teams. But then it wouldn't be part of Mazda's marketing strategy if they're trying to promote 'small' (by American standards) displacement diesels.

[MoMedic9019]

They'd be smart to grab that AER lump for 2017....Dyson did a huge amount of development work on it.

Rebadge it as a Skyactiv and nobody other than a bunch of anoraks will know the difference.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Their specific Lola's haven't been around for 7+ years... those were a few of the NOS that were on hand after Lola closed.(I agree though...they could use some new stuff)

The idea that they are going to take pure street-spec parts put them in a car, and run, and be competitive was stupid from the start. But, Japan and Mazda are committed...eventually they will get through the stuff that breaks, or just decide to switch to race-spec stuff. At some point they will need to commit to that, or abandon as is.

It would seem as if the Skyactiv-D program in commercial terms hasn't been very successful.

That said, the Ford EcoBoost race motor is said to be like 75% stock components.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

That said, the Ford EcoBoost race motor is said to be like 75% stock components.

Sure, but, I think the EcoBoost was built to handle some power. Heck, even the Neon SRT could handle 550whp on a stock block/crank/pistons really quite reliably.

I think the diesel Mazda lump wasn't designed for the boost levels and horsepower they are seeing.

[Damian Baldi]

We have to admit that they made a huge step forward in the last year. They were near 10 seconds slower than the front runners, but yesterday they were getting 1.20 and 1.21 while the leaders or even the Ligier-HPD was running at 19 an 20.

From the competition point of view, I would like them to race a petrol engine or better, the old three or four rotors engine.

[deggis]

Well, when they finally quit the program at least they can say it was never a Mazda in the first place.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by joeb

Yes they were 2 laps down at the end but 7th overall isn't too bad is it?

For a manufacturer program, in the second year to be that far behind, it is terrible.

What would you say if that was Porsche in the WEC... would you say it isn't too bad?

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

For a manufacturer program, in the second year to be that far behind, it is terrible.

What would you say if that was Porsche in the WEC... would you say it isn't too bad?

But Mazda looks to be putting a lot less money than Porsche. They race an old Lola with a tiny diesel engine. Maybe if they did the same with a v6 they could get more power.

At the moment, the only way to win for then, it's to achieve a great fuel consumption with the need of a pit stop less than the others. But they need to be near the leaders and at the same lap. Until half the race, they did it well. My respects.

[GTfour]

I don't think this machine will ever be succesfull. It's an old car with an engine that is rapidly becoming impopular.

Mazda should withdraw and save face.

It's time they make good on their promise and return with a rotary to Le Mans.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

For a manufacturer program, in the second year to be that far behind, it is terrible.

What would you say if that was Porsche in the WEC... would you say it isn't too bad?

Fair enough, but I was only comparing their results over the weekend vs their previous results.

[ThatGuy]

It's rumored that the Mazdaspeed 3, coming with a 2.5L turbo, will be unveiled towards the end of the year. I don't know if they would switch engines, but if the rumor is true it gives them another option.

[Rcz]

The engine is improving both on speed and reliability, you just gotta have patience. However I do perfer rotaries more. Remember the Furai...

[mikuni]

Mazda have said recently that they have no interest in motorsport. This doesn't seem to be the case in North America, however I wonder if the funding and supply chains to the teams are extremely limited, in that they have to make do with the limited parts and assistance that Mazda gives them, and that is it.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by GTfour

It's time they make good on their promise and return with a rotary to Le Mans.

Great concept for a the current regs (not).

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Rcz

The engine is improving both on speed and reliability, you just gotta have patience. However I do perfer rotaries more. Remember the Furai...

Yea, but the problem is that no one else is sitting still, either. Sure, they've made big gains, but everyone they're competing against, who are already significantly ahead of them is continually improving too.