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Old 8 Jul 2016, 12:46 (Ref:3657655)   #101
Gingers4Justice
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It's back. But for how long?
That's the half a dollar question.
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Old 8 Jul 2016, 16:57 (Ref:3657686)   #102
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It's back. But for how long?
Thanks for that pimmy-had not bothered to try channel 447 again -given info here-at least will be able to see V de V series tonight
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Old 18 Nov 2016, 14:19 (Ref:3689071)   #103
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rdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I see that the new owners of Autosport have now bought Motors - http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ors-tv-channel
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Old 18 Nov 2016, 14:47 (Ref:3689081)   #104
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From reading the article it appears they have no intention of showing Motors TV on Freeview, only on connected devices so it will be streamed TV, meaning with my poor internet connection there is no hope of seeing it.

'The revised channel will graduate to full HD (high-definition) status in March 2017, with content accessible from a wide array of platforms from desktop, mobile, tablet, streaming devices, gaming consoles and connected televisions to set-top devices such as Apple TV, Amazon Fire and Roku. '
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Old 18 Nov 2016, 17:09 (Ref:3689099)   #105
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The owners really are expanding their business model, and it seems for the right reasons, I wish them well
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Old 18 Nov 2016, 18:05 (Ref:3689113)   #106
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The right reasons meaning cashing in yes?

PPV motorsort here we come.
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Old 19 Nov 2016, 14:59 (Ref:3689355)   #107
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The right reasons meaning cashing in yes?

PPV motorsort here we come.
I'd pay for a motorsport equivalent to netflix. Motorflix. Catalogues of races and series from around the world. I'd love a company that streamed IMSA, elms, Blancpain and WEC all in one place, and kept the races for watching any time afterwards. That's what motorsport needs. One stop shop for seeing any series you want.

Streaming is the way forward. My kids don't even watch TV and the youngest was confused that TV runs on a schedule and Internet streaming is any time you want. Blancpain and elms stream on YouTube and is far better than ever. Its the way forward.
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 11:02 (Ref:3689681)   #108
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Streaming might be the way forward chap.

But if you follow a lot of series and have to pay for each one, it will become insanely expensive.

This company are buying up anything remotely linked to f1, Motors isn't really so they probably got it super cheap and will fill it full of nonsense. I can't imagine some of the trash that is on there right now will stay.

The now have the ability to have their own tv channel, so just imagine what they are going to do with it?
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 13:29 (Ref:3689713)   #109
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Streaming might be the way forward chap.

But if you follow a lot of series and have to pay for each one, it will become insanely expensive.
Seems to have gotten significantly cheaper, actually? Now instead of needing Sky, plus Sky Sports, BT Sport, MotorsTV, Eurosport and other assorted random channels, which totals £30-£60 (or more) a month, I can see everything I want online.

BTCC - ITV4 (ITV online) - Free
ELMS - YouTube/DailyMotion - Free
Blancpain - YouTube - Free
IMSA - IMSA Radio (Radio Le Mans) - Free
WEC - FIAWEC.com - £30 a year (IIRC)
24Hr Series - YouTube - Free
SuperGT - YouTube - Free
N24 - Free
Bathurst12 Hr - Free

F1 is the odd one out here. Everyone else is moving to web based content, and the majority are free. WEC costs the same for a whole year as a single month of a TV subscription. I follow more series now than ever, yet pay less than ever. These are all legit official streams too - no dodgy illegal content here.

Streaming is the way forward, whether F1 is anti-consumer or not.
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 14:29 (Ref:3689735)   #110
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Be honest chap

Do you think it will be free for long?

Most of those series are dipping their toe int he water and theya re very polarized circuit racing formulas, if you dropped in more variety like MotoGP, WRC, Indycar, f1 you would be paying a lot more.

You are lucky you like series that are free, theya re free for a reason I shall say only that!
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 15:45 (Ref:3689746)   #111
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Be honest chap

Do you think it will be free for long?

Most of those series are dipping their toe int he water and theya re very polarized circuit racing formulas, if you dropped in more variety like MotoGP, WRC, Indycar, f1 you would be paying a lot more.

You are lucky you like series that are free, they are free for a reason I shall say only that!
"Do you think it will be free for long?"

They've been free for years. So, yeah.

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You are lucky you like series that are free, they are free for a reason I shall say only that!
Actually there are lots of reasons - none of which are your implied "they aren't very good/popular".

Firstly, the extended race lengths make it unrealistic for TV. TV is why races have moved from 1000 miles to 6 hours - because then it has a solid start and finish times. It's why IMSA races are now a cut down 2hrs 40 minutes, because you can get them on TV. But ELMS and WEC are a bit much for TV at times. Realistically, TV companies like short programs and don't think people have the attention span for a 3 hour event.

It's also because on TV, they have to fight big popular sports for spots. Are Eurosport going to show 6 hours of WEC, or are they going to show a popular Tennis match? This is a problem with every motorsport series of course - F1 used to get bumped for Coronation Street in the free-to-air days. The only reason, and one reason only, F1 doesn't get bumped in the UK now is it has its own channel (which is still dropping in viewing figures at a record rate).

Another reason these events are free to air is because the series and teams pay for the coverage to be free. Blancpain, VLN, SuperGT are all free to air because Nissan pays for it as part of their marketing. Audi used to pay for Radio Le Mans, and Radio Le Mans is what brings us IMSA coverage, and involved in ELMS and WEC of course.

Now you make a fair point - the series I watch just happen to be free. So lets look at TV versus streaming costs.

F1 is shown on Sky. If you're not a sky customer and want to sign up and get the Sky Sports package, then the Sky website is currently advertising it for £47 a month. MotoGP is on BT Sport. If you don't sign up for their broadband package, then that's £15 a month. I can't find the price of Eurosport for TV, as it varies per package. But funnily enough, they stream for £6 a month. So lets just add that £6 to TV and call it evens - £68 a month for Sky Sports, BT Sports and Eurosport. I'm assuming MotorsTV is currently free with the Sky Package. So £68 a month becomes £816 a year,

That £816 a year will get you all the channels you need to watch almost every motorsport we've mentioned.

So lets investigate the streaming side of things

We know all of the series I've posted are free apart from WEC. So WEC is £30. A quick look into MotoGP said the streaming was £21 for 6 months. I suspected that was nonsense and I was right - £150 for a year is actually what it costs. So £180 so far. WRC does provide a streaming service and it looks rather impressive - includes maps, split times, onboards, highlights and live. They're charging £42 for a year. So £221 so far. IndyCar current provides no streaming at all, and hasn't for a while since they messed up their TV contracts. F1 does not provide a stream, but, Sky does in the form of NowTV. There's lots of ways of buying a NowTV pass, but I'll go for the cheapest which is a day pass, which is £7. With 20 F1 races, that makes it £140. Double that if you want qualifying and it brings it to £280. Combine that with the previous number, and you'll get £501 a year if you take the streaming option. The only series you won't get is IndyCar, but that is on TV Sport. The BT Sport subscription costs the same as the TV, £15 a month or £180 a year, which brings the total to £681.

TV current cost: £816
Stream current cost: £681

Currently you save £130 a year if you swap from TV to streams. It also gives you the flexibility to drop series. I personally would happily drop MotoGP and IndyCar from that, which would save me £330 a year, for example.If you drop F1 then that's a £280 a year saving. So far I'm saving almost £800 since all I pay for is WEC. So you start with a base saving of around £130, but can save much more if you really want.

Upside of streaming is that because the series is in control of their own streams (except F1, oh the irony), your race will never get bumped for Tennis. It'll also also be shown live, in full - something which doesn't always happen on TV. And in the case of the series that use YouTube, you'll also be able to view it any time you want after the event too.

There's also a moral discussion on what you want your money to support too. Do I want to pay £30 a year to support the WEC, or do I want to pay £50 a month to Sky? I'd happily pay for Blancpain and ELMS, for example.

You're probably sitting there thinking I'm mental for going into such detail. But I think it's important to get streaming costs into context. This applies to things like Netflix, Spotify and Apple Music too. When it comes to digital content, people seem to think it's all incredible expensive. But the same content supplied through a TV could be more expensive, but in our heads seems like a better deal. People seem to assume iTunes is expensive because you just get a digital download - but the download is often cheaper than the CD.

Streaming is the way forward. It currently is cheaper, more on demand, more accessible, and more customised to the needs of individual series. Streaming opens the door to new fans and especially the younger generations. Free or cheap streams brings it into the homes of the younger people, or even poorer people who cannot afford the more expensive TV options. I personally see no advantage to TV, unless you watch a LOT of sports (football, for example). From a motorsport only view, I welcome it with open arms.
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 22:11 (Ref:3689833)   #112
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You are right

I reda a few lines and got bored.
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 22:21 (Ref:3689836)   #113
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Sorry you got bored. I made the mistake of thinking looking into each side and weighing up the pros and cons would be a good thing. I at least learnt wrc has an awesome streaming package, so not a total loss!
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 23:08 (Ref:3689840)   #114
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I refuse to pay to watch "any Motorsport" that is live to air and always manage to find a way round it on the laptop, including HD !
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Old 20 Nov 2016, 23:42 (Ref:3689843)   #115
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Of course me too GS, just not as keen on publicly saying so!
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Old 21 Nov 2016, 01:20 (Ref:3689862)   #116
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Motorsport Network wants to take over the world. This is just another step.

Buying Motors TV isn't about British club racing fans, but about video production and distribution.
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Old 21 Nov 2016, 01:21 (Ref:3689863)   #117
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I'd pay for a motorsport equivalent to netflix. Motorflix. Catalogues of races and series from around the world. I'd love a company that streamed IMSA, elms, Blancpain and WEC all in one place, and kept the races for watching any time afterwards. That's what motorsport needs. One stop shop for seeing any series you want.
Americans have Lucas Oil TV and Motor Trend on Demand. But they don't have Nascar, IndyCar, IMSA or NHRA.
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Old 21 Nov 2016, 08:54 (Ref:3689900)   #118
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
For once I agree with you Naburu, they are a global takeover company, nothing more
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Old 21 Nov 2016, 17:14 (Ref:3689983)   #119
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I refuse to pay to watch "any Motorsport" that is live to air and always manage to find a way round it on the laptop, including HD !
I assume that's likely the case with most of us. (I don't have a laptop, but use a remote keyboard and mini PC connected to my TV.)

Motors TV (or at least some kind of North American version of it) was finally approved for distribution here in Canada just over a year ago, but it was never carried by any TV service.
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2015/2015-487.htm

It was too late. There might have been some demand for it, if it had become available here about 6 or 8 years ago when the TV channel that had been Speedvision/SpeedTV was dropping almost all of its racing except for Nascar.

While all the streaming that's available is great for those of us who purposefully look for it, it's general lack of availability on mainstream TV sources here won't help to attract any new and younger viewers.
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Old 21 Nov 2016, 20:41 (Ref:3690032)   #120
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While all the streaming that's available is great for those of us who purposefully look for it, it's general lack of availability on mainstream TV sources here won't help to attract any new and younger viewers.
I'm not so sure - my son has found lot of stuff on youtube - because that's where he looks for stuff rather than in tv schedules. I'm sure the same is true of many other members of the 'yoof' audience. Online presence and in particular youtube is important now (and maybe moreso than being on some obscure tv channel in the middle of the night).
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Old 21 Nov 2016, 21:26 (Ref:3690039)   #121
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Here in Uruguay, ESPN airs IndyCar and MotoGP, and Fox Sports 3 (former Speed Channel) airs F1 (partial schedule, the rest is on an F1 premium channel), WRC, WRX, WTCC, WEC, Nascar, IMSA, WSBK and DTM. Of course, some of those clash, so you get to see just one of them live.

I can't complain about that - except that I don have ESPN3, so I can't watch most IndyCar races, but that's my provider's fault. Every TV provider has Fox and ESPN. They have on-demand service, but I can log to ESPn Play, and Fox Sports Play is very limited.

In some countries, not all TV providers have all channels. France, Italy and Australia are examples. Plus there are too many countries with local issues.

That's why big networks like ESPN, Fox and Eurosport make it easier to get major sports around the world. And that's why over-the-top services like Netflix are easier to get.

But there's nichés that are often ignored, like non-F1 motorsports. I think that Motorsport Network could fill that niché.
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Old 22 Nov 2016, 08:17 (Ref:3690142)   #122
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I'm not so sure - my son has found lot of stuff on youtube - because that's where he looks for stuff rather than in tv schedules. I'm sure the same is true of many other members of the 'yoof' audience. Online presence and in particular youtube is important now (and maybe moreso than being on some obscure tv channel in the middle of the night).
Exactly. This is an important point that gets missed by the older generation - including Radio Le Mans when they discuss streaming. Streaming is now the way the younger generation view the most content.

Streaming also has schedules (like TV), so you can find what you want. Many of the services also give suggestions - YouTube for example. I recently watched a replay of the 2016 N24 race - the whole thing! It was all on YouTube, officially uploaded. And after the race, it had suggestions "Do you want to watch the 2016 IMSA Laguna Seca race?" Damn right I do!

I don't think older generations are fully understand how streaming works, the advances in recent years, and the massive shift towards it for younger generations.

You can watch the full Ring 24 hours live on YouTube in HD. Or you can stay up till 3am and get 30 minute highlights on BT Sport 6.
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Old 22 Nov 2016, 12:07 (Ref:3690190)   #123
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Everyone knows how streaming works mate.

we all do it regardless of age. I do it for some things and do it dodgily for film and tv.

But it is a big stretch to try and convince the older generation to pay to watch things on a device other than tv. I work with two guys in their 60's who watch most football and new films and tv on chipped digiboxes so they know what it's all about.

It's a bit like newspapers, for the older generation reading a paper is something tangible, like buying a CD. There is always going to be a generational gap for these new technologies. But offer them a way to watch it for nothing and they will quickly learn.

I have only downloaded music once in my life, I hate it, and as a result have stopped listening to as much music as I once did, no record shop in town, and I don't listen to radio as much.

TV wise I stream everything, I don't own a tv, so it's the only way I can watch.

But for some, paying someone to host a website seems expensive when we are conditioned to paying for SKY or BBC services which seem to offer more but in reality don't.

Plus when you add it into those costs it starts to look expensive on top of broadband, tv subs line rental etc.

Streaming for me is an alternative not a replacement for tv.
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Old 22 Nov 2016, 12:27 (Ref:3690193)   #124
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The danger of going streaming-only is losing casual fans. But that's more dangerous for major sports like football than for minor sports that already have few casual fans.
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Old 23 Nov 2016, 09:17 (Ref:3690447)   #125
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Everyone knows how streaming works mate.
Evidently not, since it keeps being said that you have to go looking for it. Only in the sense that you have to look for TV Channels. If you use legitimate streaming methods, then you don't have to go looking for it in some odd little corner of the internet.

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But it is a big stretch to try and convince the older generation to pay to watch things on a device other than tv.
We're not talking about the older generation. The older generation are already watching. They were engaged in the sports years ago, and continue to be, whether it through legitimate streams, dodgy streams, or TV. Motorsports problem has never been the core audience, but rather trying to gain new fans.

I have 2 kids, one a teenager and one younger. Neither watch TV. Both streaming only. They cannot even stumble over F1 because F1 refuses to engage in streaming, thus missing out on the younger market. But they have stumbled over other motorsports through YouTubes suggestions. They've also found their own tastes of games and music through this. Whether the older generation want to admit it or not - streaming IS the way forward and it IS how younger generations are connecting with media and sports now.

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But for some, paying someone to host a website seems expensive when we are conditioned to paying for SKY or BBC services which seem to offer more but in reality don't.
You said it yourself, it's just conditioning. We'll pay £800 a year for Sky and all the other various channels that go with it. But we won't pay £500 for the same things to be delivered to our screens at home, but without all the extra fluff that Sky adds to justify the price? Streaming might seem expensive, but the figures don't lie- it really isn't. The one thing that could change those figures round and make TV a better deal is you watch a LOT of sport, such as football, tennis, cricket etc.

----

This original topic was on MotorsTV, and I was thinking about this last night. MotorsTV has now been purchased. Why is this a bad thing? MotorsTV was struggling, we all know that. For years (maybe even decades now), the image and sound quality has been poor, the program quality has been poor and generally the channel was always in a poor state. But we accepted it and loved it for what it was because we're motorsport fans, and so are they and they were just trying to bring us motorsport.

Now it's been purchased, and I think it's important to look at who is doing it. Zak Brown is going to end up leading McLaren, he runs United Autosports, raced in lots of series for decades and obviously owns Autosport magazine. How can we NOT say this guy is a motorsport fan? Isn't this what we want? People who are actual fans of the sport, but with money, to buy and operate the things we want, to a higher standard? He's going to take MotorsTV from an obscure channel on Sky, to a proper stand alone site that'll engage with new generations...and we're complaining?

And not only that, the people who are complaining openly admit they use dodgy streams anyway. So it doesn't matter if it's on Sky, Virgin, the internet, or owned by Zak Brown, Donald Trump or that bloke down the road with the funny nose - the people using dodgy streams will continue to use dodgy streams and see no real difference.
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