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Old 21 May 2010, 16:15 (Ref:2695539)   #1
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Ralt vs Reynard: Battle of the single seater constructors!

Ralt took over from March as the dominant chassis to have in F3 and F2, and later Reynard practically succeeded Ralt in F3 and 3000.

Both companies were run and staffed by highly intelligent and skillful engineers but which one do people rate as the better at what they achieved and produced during the 80's and 90's 2 decades that were immensly competetive for the single seater customer market place.

For me the Ralt RT3 is one of the seminal racing cars of all time, which re-set the parameters for production single seaters in design, construction. Ditto the very first Reynard F3000 car, the 88D which blew everyone's minds on it's debut at Jerez in 1988.

Hope this turns into a decent discussion!
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Old 21 May 2010, 19:42 (Ref:2695636)   #2
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Ralt dominated the early 1980s in F3 and F2 [albeit really only works F2] and Reynard took over the mantle in all the Formulae outside of F1 from late 1980s onwards. I often believe that it was Reynard's dominance that ushered in the one-make prevalence we have everywhere today.

In answer to the discussion question, Reynard were by far and away the more successful. However the demise of both is a clear indication that their engineering competance exceeded their commercial nous.
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Old 25 May 2010, 18:21 (Ref:2698069)   #3
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Well this has been an absolute flyer so far hasn't it!!!

I thought it would be a genuinely interesting topic to debate.

davyboy thanks for your input,

In the mid 80's Reynard threatened to do to Ralt what Ralt had done to March in 1980, but it didn't really happen that way did it?

The 853 was a great car out of the box, but by season's end the RT30 was ahead. in 1986 there was nothing between the 2 chassis and it was only really 1988 when Reynard took control with the 883 for one season.

Ron Tauranac did really well to step upto the plate with the 1989 RT33 and 1990 RT34 cars, they really were the class of the field, as was the 1991 RT35 but by then Ralt were getting into serious financial troubles IIRC? It was only then did the F3 programme go downhill and rapidly....

F3000 was a different matter I thought, much more clear cut. Reynard initially came in and put March and Lola in the shade as Ralt had never really got to grips with the formula properly with the exception of the 1987 works team which to be frank really should have cleaned up if has picked at least one different driver to those that were signed? However, whilst March never really recovered from that battering, Lola regrouped and compared more than favourably with the Bicester cars from 89-90.

Last edited by chunterer; 26 May 2010 at 09:35.
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Old 25 May 2010, 18:53 (Ref:2698104)   #4
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I would certainly give a lot of merit to Reynard for the IndyCars they built!
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Old 25 May 2010, 22:34 (Ref:2698257)   #5
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I think all the Reynard F3000 cars were very easy on the eye where the others mentioned especially Ralts weren't.
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Old 26 May 2010, 07:44 (Ref:2698366)   #6
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I think all the Reynard F3000 cars were very easy on the eye where the others mentioned especially Ralts weren't.
Agreed, let's not forget too that Reynard were doing a pretty good job in FF1600 and more particularly in FF2000 before 'utterly dominating' Formula Vauxhall Lotus / Opel Lotus
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Old 26 May 2010, 09:37 (Ref:2698415)   #7
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Agreed, let's not forget too that Reynard were doing a pretty good job in FF1600 and more particularly in FF2000 before 'utterly dominating' Formula Vauxhall Lotus / Opel Lotus
Indeed, perhaps we should kick off a thread about Reynard v Van Diemen: FF in the 80's!!!

Is it pretty true to suggest that Adrian Reynard and Rick Gorne, took on and best their main rival contructors in nearly everythin they tackled from quite an early stage in each programme?
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Old 26 May 2010, 10:15 (Ref:2698439)   #8
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Is it pretty true to suggest that Adrian Reynard and Rick Gorne, took on and best their main rival contructors in nearly everythin they tackled from quite an early stage in each programme?
Yes it is. In fact, shortly before they launched their first champcar, I remember Adrian saying that they made it their mission to win first time out with every new series they entered. Then came BAR !
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Old 28 May 2010, 11:50 (Ref:2699857)   #9
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Yes it is. In fact, shortly before they launched their first champcar, I remember Adrian saying that they made it their mission to win first time out with every new series they entered. Then came BAR !
Yes I recall that too, after how many debut successes did Adrian realise he was onto something special though I wonder??

The F1 thing was a shame, too many short cuts, wrong management, wrong engines, drivers the whole thing was compromised after the commitment was made etc etc... But as they say that's another story!!

Earlier you made a significant point about the domination of FVL/FOE.....

It's funny, Van Diemen managed the same thing with Formula First AND Forward; those legendary Brands Hatch based single seater serie.'

Actually I'm hoping Bella might take an interest in this one as there's some relevance to F3? She doesn't often venture out of NISS though.... chuckle.
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Old 8 Jun 2010, 18:36 (Ref:2706884)   #10
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Unfortunately the thread got diverted off topic briefly, davyboy, SAMD I know it wasn't a deliberate hijack and I look forward to your further input on topic. Please check your pm's.

I'm going to elaborate on the thread and suggest that the best Ralt was the RT3 and the best Reynard the 873, but they're both F3 cars though?
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Old 8 Jun 2010, 22:37 (Ref:2706993)   #11
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Reynard 88D for me.........
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Old 10 Jun 2010, 10:50 (Ref:2708140)   #12
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Yeah 88D certainly the most impressive F3000 chassis I guess, and straight out of nowhere too.

Mind you the 89D was good as it faced tougher competition from the T89/50 Lola but the 1992 - 1995 cars had it basically their own way?

Funnily enough Ralt were the only proper challengers to Reynard in 1991 as the Lola didn't get on with the tyres!

Reynards first really tough season where they didn't have an edge in F3 or 3000 was 1990 I suppose.
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Old 10 Jun 2010, 12:57 (Ref:2708244)   #13
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Its just a pity that we don't have any real chassis competition in the major series any more.
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Old 17 Jun 2010, 18:29 (Ref:2713862)   #14
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Please, also elaborate on the different models/years of Ralts (and Reynard). I am just recently an owner of a Ralt RT3 from 1984 and is very interested in differences between different Ralt models and Ralts from different years. All from technical, functional and performance.
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Old 17 Jun 2010, 18:54 (Ref:2713878)   #15
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Ok Swede i'll have a go to start off with!

Ralt RT1 - First F3 chassis but I don't know much about those.

Ralt RT3 - F3 chassis built and ran between 1980 and 1985 The '85 cars were basically late model specialist updates by the likes of DPR rather than full factory builds as by then the RT30 was the main chassis.

RT30 - F3 chassis for 1985/86
RT31 - 1987
RT32 - 88
RT33 - 89
RT34 - 90
RT35 - 91
RT36 - 92
RT37 - 93 (bascially a derivative of the 36 but hardly ever raced as Ralt was by then in the hands of March.)

There was the F2 cars like the RT2 and the RH6 series which basically were the same development from 1979 - 84.

The RT20 was the first 3000 chassis in 1985 followed by
RT21 - 86 & 87
RT22 - 88

there was then a gap until RT23 in 1991.

RT4 was the long running Atlantic chassis.

Someone else can fill in the rest, have a crack at technical differences and would anyone else like to list the Reynards?
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Old 18 Jun 2010, 06:59 (Ref:2714150)   #16
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Someone else can fill in the rest, have a crack at technical differences and would anyone else like to list the Reynards?

Have a a look here for the F3 stuff: http://www.f3history.co.uk/
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Old 26 Jun 2010, 11:07 (Ref:2718172)   #17
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Have a a look here for the F3 stuff: http://www.f3history.co.uk/
Thanks for the good link andy, however my intention was to foster further discussion than refer to other sites as such!
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Old 27 Jun 2010, 22:58 (Ref:2718992)   #18
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Ralt also came VERY close to dominating the Formula Atlantic/Pacific series in the US and Aus/NZ.

RT4's and later RT40's seemed to be everywhere, only really Swift and to some extent Reynard who were competing with them in the later years of open Formula Atlantic
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Old 28 Jun 2010, 08:18 (Ref:2719115)   #19
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Thanks for the good link andy, however my intention was to foster further discussion than refer to other sites as such!
OK, sorry. Was just hoping to short cut some of the specualtion when the answers to some questions are already easily available.

As an aside, a friend of mine who has owned several examples of both Reynards & Ralts reckons that the Reynards were always much better designed & built - everything seemed to fit better & be located in just the right place. In contrast he reckoned that the Ralts seemed to have a few things fitted as after thoughts & had brackets on brackets etc. Didn't stop them being quick cars, just that the Reynards seemed a bit more "professionally" put together.

I think Dallara moved the game even further, though.
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Old 3 Aug 2010, 19:14 (Ref:2738940)   #20
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RT-model descriptions

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Ok Swede i'll have a go to start off with!

Ralt RT1 - First F3 chassis but I don't know much about those.

Ralt RT3 - F3 chassis built and ran between 1980 and 1985 The '85 cars were basically late model specialist updates by the likes of DPR rather than full factory builds as by then the RT30 was the main chassis.

RT30 - F3 chassis for 1985/86
RT31 - 1987
RT32 - 88
RT33 - 89
RT34 - 90
RT35 - 91
RT36 - 92
RT37 - 93 (bascially a derivative of the 36 but hardly ever raced as Ralt was by then in the hands of March.)
Thanks Chunterer (and others) for all information!

Is there some documentation from "the factory" (or from someone else) that document the technical details and the differences between the diffenent RT-models. Preferably also drawings. Such as track, suspension data, wheel base and technical improvements model by model.

My main interest is F3. I have read all information and details on the web http://www.f3history.co.uk/ and also the book Brabham + Ralt + Honda, The Ron Tauranac Story by Mike Lawrence.

Last edited by The Swede; 3 Aug 2010 at 19:24. Reason: I do not get it right it with the Quote
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