Historic Formula Ford Chassis Regulations

[ChrisSwift]

Hi all,

I've noticed with a few pre-71 cars that are eligible for the HFF championship that their pedals are quite a way forward of the front wheel centreline, is this still legal as such for these cars? Would any modifications be required/allowed to conform with current regs/or to make a car safer?

As modern regulations dictate that drivers feet should be behind the FW centreline. I assume however that the cars are checked to their original regs, hence they have their papers, and thus when they go for scruitineering, they are checked for conformance to MSA Appendix K safety regulations in terms of roll bar/belts etc etc... and not to the current chassis design regs, just that they have their papers to prove that the car is from such a year and designed to previous regs, is that correct?

Any information that people can offer on this topic would be very useful

Cheers

[ChrisSwift]

got it clarified by HSCC, pedals need to be behind FW centreline. I was unsure as to whether cars like this may have a dispensation for this being historics, like the formula jedi has. Obviously its much safer to move them back but can imagine in some cars its a real problem to modify them. answered my own question!

[Alan Morgan]

The pedal regulation does not apply to cars built before 1st January 1999 (or cars of a type which competed in a championship before 1-1-99 (hence the Jedi situation)

Regulation J 5.2.11

[ChrisSwift]

Thanks Alan, that's the regulation that I originally thought would apply. I spoke to Dallas, the HFF registrar earlier and he said that the pedals must be behind the centreline, so any car that does not meet this regulation must be modified to bring them back. Do you think that is something that is applied by the HSCC to the HFF championship on safety grounds? I can't find anything in the technical regulations for the championship regarding this.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by ChrisSwift

Thanks Alan, that's the regulation that I originally thought would apply. I spoke to Dallas, the HFF registrar earlier and he said that the pedals must be behind the centreline, so any car that does not meet this regulation must be modified to bring them back. Do you think that is something that is applied by the HSCC to the HFF championship on safety grounds? I can't find anything in the technical regulations for the championship regarding this.

This is quite relavant Chris. I mean the 1984 Van Dieman (I had one) runs with a forward driving position. It can also be quite a fast car. It runs in pre 90 (pre '87 here in NI) If it had to be altered it would probably finish it off as a competitive chassis. This would not be quite the disaster first envisaged a competitive pre 90 chassis could be bought I imagine for about £2.5k and the car built out of the RF84 so effectively you could loose £2.5k but gain a safer chassis plus the costs of a rebuild.

[Chris Sharples]

Chris,

On behalf of the HSCC can I clarify this by re-iterating what Alan posted?

Have a look at the appropriate rule in the Blue Book on page 144. Regulation J 5.2.11 states that the pedal regulation is "Not applicable to vehicles constructed prior to 1.1.99".

The HSCC Historic FF championship is for pre-72 cars.

To amplify the point we have a number of Elden's running with us and they are free to do so because of J 5.2.11

If Simon Hadfield is browsing this thread, please feel free to throw in your pennys worth!

Chris

[ChrisSwift]

Chris, thanks for the clarification. I thought this would be the case with the pre '99 rule, but I wanted to understand the HSCCs position on this. Having spoken to Dallas yesterday and being told that the pedals have to be behind the FW centreline and then checking the rules as afore mentioned, to read something different, I'm sure you can understand my confusion. I don't want to turn up with a car that has pedals forward of the wheels, is technically legal as per the MSA regs and its papers etc and then be denied to race by the championship registrar/scruitineer because I was told that they had to be moved. Obviously this rule dispensates pre '99 cars, and no modification is required, so its a non-issue.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by ChrisSwift

Chris, thanks for the clarification. I thought this would be the case with the pre '99 rule, but I wanted to understand the HSCCs position on this. Having spoken to Dallas yesterday and being told that the pedals have to be behind the FW centreline and then checking the rules as afore mentioned, to read something different, I'm sure you can understand my confusion. I don't want to turn up with a car that has pedals forward of the wheels, is technically legal as per the MSA regs and its papers etc and then be denied to race by the championship registrar/scruitineer because I was told that they had to be moved. Obviously this rule dispensates pre '99 cars, and no modification is required, so its a non-issue.

Just tuck your knees up to your chin Chris, lol, not very comfy but it might help you comply.

[McMuttley]

Knees up! I wish I could reach my pedals :-( At least when I lie down to do so, I have no problem being well below the roll bar :-)

[Will Nuthall]

I got checked for this at Donington and over the winter had moved the pedals back, purely in order for me to be able to reach them, not knowing the ruling. Was told by the scrutineer that they had to be behind. Luckily they are now just behind the centre line.

This should really be in the publish regulations. Don't think it is though.

[jhh911]

It is not in the regs because it does not apply pre 99.if it did lots of drivers would have to amputate their legs at the knees to meet the criteria,have a look at an Elden.We have had enough agro allready with roll bar farce without this tosh.