750MC at Silverstone / Club racing generally

[JohnnyFiama]

I’m curious if anyone else went to the 750MC at Silverstone this weekend. I’ve been going to Silverstone since I was kid and used to marshal there but haven’t been to many events for the last 5 years or so because of family and work commitments. This Saturday I thought I’d take the kids to their first ever meeting and thought the 750MC would be a good start as they’re only 3 and 6 so lots of short races would be ideal.

The thing that really surprised me was that we seemed to be the only people there! We were at the complex and there were only 20 or so people around all day. Nothing seemed to be open, you couldn’t get in to any of the stands, there were no stewards and no food outlets (except in the paddock). When we arrived the guy on the gate seemed completely surprised that we were there to watch some racing, he tried directing us to the driving experience day..... once in the circuit there was no-one around, if I hadn’t have been hundreds of times I would have had no idea where to park or where to go. If I’d been a first time visitor I would have been totally put off by the lack of any indication where I should park or spectate.

Has club racing been hit by the credit crunch? Are crowds normally this low? I’ve seen bigger attendances for my village football team. I’m not knocking the 750MC, we had a great day with some great racing, the Locost race was amazing, just curious where all the spectators have gone.....

[Robin_D]

That's a really good question. I just don't think that there is the fanbase that there used to be. Maybe for Touring Cars or Superbikes, but clubbies just aren't drawing in the speccies that it used to.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Robin_D

That's a really good question. I just don't think that there is the fanbase that there used to be. Maybe for Touring Cars or Superbikes, but clubbies just aren't drawing in the speccies that it used to.

It is quite sad to see the gates suffer in this sport, 30-40 years ago it was a different matter but now im afraid that is all too often the case, Televison has propelled motorsport (the same as other sports) into the armchairs of the masses, and rather than go to a circuit, and smell Castrol R (Im showing my age) its easier to sit in front of the telly with surround sound 5. whatever and get the "on Board" view etc etc etc. (for me, its a poor substitute to the real thing and I dont care how many speakers youve got!!)

I was quite surprised at donington this weekend, there seemed to be a good few there...but , the weather was good and the cars were very interesting I thought

[andy97]

Castle Combe seems to be the only circuit that bucks the trend on a consistent basis, but generally club racing doesn't attract many spectators outside of the family and friends of the drivers

[Peter Harding]

This is more to do with the interest the circuit have in promoting events locally. As the gate money goes to the circuit it's not economical for the clubs to advertise much.
There was a view a while ago that public only go to a fixed number of events a year so they would only promote the big meetings (in there eyes) so they don't waste paying for staff every weekend.
There are so many activities competing for supporters around that they could be right.
I just think that true supporters would turn up regularly if the events were publicised and shops/stands opened.

Anyway - I am glad you and the family enjoyed the day out and hope you come back (750MC Birkett 6 hour relay is 24 October)

[Tony_Simpson]

I was there on the Sunday, got there at 10.30, and a few cars in front of me to get in.

When there the food was open, and the stands in the infield in the first 1/3rd of the lap to Becketts were open all day. There seemed to be a fair number of people at the race spectating, not a massive number but enough.

The only thing i could not work out was the wait between the end of qualifying and start of racing. First race of the day was 2.30pm!!


I know Silverstone is not the best place to spectate but the racing was good and once started no big waits and made for a good day out.

[chezza]

Tony...that wait between practice and racing...its called a lunch break!! However I was slightly surprised to have a such a long church break and then a lunch break as well.

But apparently it is something to do with making sure there is a lunch break so that the food outlets get the custom...!!

[Tony_Simpson]

sorry i misphrased that last post. I agree every one needs a lunch break, the Marshalls and officals need one. Its good to come into the pits and have a look around at the cars, etc

What i meant to say is that it seemed odd to have a long practice period in the morning, with a late start to racing.

I also did not realise about the church break in the morning too, but i have been to other races at Silverstone and racing has started ealier.

[chezza]

There was a later start on Sunday (10am, most days are 9am) and then each series had to had to have a practice/qualifying session, before the racing. It was actually quite a nice days racing.

[brands hatch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFiama

Has club racing been hit by the credit crunch? Are crowds normally this low? I’ve seen bigger attendances for my village football team. I’m not knocking the 750MC, we had a great day with some great racing, the Locost race was amazing, just curious where all the spectators have gone.....

As a regular at brands hatch i have noticed the opposite...Club events such as the BRSCC 2 weeks ago and the BARC/CTCRC last weekend seem to be attracting fairly decents crowds (for the size of the event), where as the A1GP and WTCC meets seemed much less well attended than previous years. Could this also be a sign of the credit crunch?...spectators are not willing to spend as much for national (such as BTCC) or international events (such as A1GP or WTCC) so are more attracted to the smaller (and i must say often just as exciting!) club events?

[White flag man]

It always amazes me how few spectators we get these days for club meetings, but as Peter says, it's probably down to publicity. I thought the Locost races, Saturday, were the best races I'd seen all year and I'm sure if people came once, they would love to come again.

[westfieldbend]

Originally Posted by brands hatch

As a regular at brands hatch i have noticed the opposite...Club events such as the BRSCC 2 weeks ago and the BARC/CTCRC last weekend seem to be attracting fairly decents crowds (for the size of the event), where as the A1GP and WTCC meets seemed much less well attended than previous years. Could this also be a sign of the credit crunch?...spectators are not willing to spend as much for national (such as BTCC) or international events (such as A1GP or WTCC) so are more attracted to the smaller (and i must say often just as exciting!) club events?

yes i have noticed the same thing, which may or may not be due to the credit crunch.
i wonder what dtm crowd wwill be like, i havnt found one person that wants to go.

[JackN]

I was there on sunday doing my first ever commentary on the Stock hatch heat and Formula 4. During the stock hatch final (while waiting to do the podium interviews) i sat and watched in the BRDC grandstand. There were a fair amount of people there, and one group of ladies who had obviously turned up for one driver, but i certainly got the impression that the majority of people were there because they knew a driver or something.

I just dont understand how Silverstone gets 100,000 or so for the F1, but about 200 (im guessing) for a great meeting like 750mc. I know obviously its going to be lower, but what are 99,800 motorsport fans doing??

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by JackN

I was there on sunday doing my first ever commentary on the Stock hatch heat and Formula 4. During the stock hatch final (while waiting to do the podium interviews) i sat and watched in the BRDC grandstand. There were a fair amount of people there, and one group of ladies who had obviously turned up for one driver, but i certainly got the impression that the majority of people were there because they knew a driver or something.

I just dont understand how Silverstone gets 100,000 or so for the F1, but about 200 (im guessing) for a great meeting like 750mc. I know obviously its going to be lower, but what are 99,800 motorsport fans doing??

Jack,
I suggest most of the 100,000 aren't real motorsport fans, it's just part of their social calendar, but 10,000 attending would be very nice.

[R59]

Jeff Carter, who's one of the sport's marketing men said to me a long time back, that the hard core of motorsport fanitics in this country amounts to about 150000 people. These are people who go to see something motorsport related regularly. That's spread over the whole country, and all genre's of the sport.

As has been said, clubs don't market their meetings, why should they - there is no benefit to them as the circuits take the gate money. The circuit isn't interested, they have been paid a large wedge of cash for hire of the place, and the fewer people that turn up the better for them - they don't have to run as many staff on the day.

This is what's wrong with the sport.

Castle Combe have it right. They run their own meetings, and market them to get people in through the gate to make M O N E Y. They do very well at it.

If every circuit operated the way that they do, building a hardcore of around 3000 spectators for every meeting, that would boost our motorport fanatics base dramatically, and hopefully some sort of snowball effect may happen. However, the downside is that circuits would have to pick and choose what raced at their meetings to ensure the paying public were entertained. Some of our races, even those with burgeoning grids, are boring processional affairs with boring droning cars. Punters (average Joe off the street) wants to see "angry cars" going fast, being spectacular. That to me is cars like Thundersaloons, Can-Am, F5000 (you might see a similarity here, something to do with V8's!!).

Get the formula right, and motor racing could rival footing the ball for tabloid page space. Otherwise, it's going to stay as it is. Dwindling, with bursts of interest here and there.

[JNWRF01]

Have to agree with last comment - the track owners have to be promoters to make racing popular again. With no vested interest in gate money, clubs won't promote racing. Castle Coombe is a classic example of this. I don;t believe all this rubbish that 99% of the people who go to the GP aren't racing fans - the reality is - they don;t know what is going on as nothing is promoted. I remember racing on the various paper/radio station free days in the early 90s - with massive crowds for club racing.

If you look at the way that somewhere like Santa Pod promotes its events - you just cant compare to anything at Brands/Silv/Donn etc etc...

Lastly, its not just club racing that suffers - have you been to an F3 meeting recently!!

[JackN]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Jack,
I suggest most of the 100,000 aren't real motorsport fans, it's just part of their social calendar, but 10,000 attending would be very nice.

Exactly. I realise that numbers will be significantly smaller, but just how much smaller is the amazing thing.

[R59]

99% of people who go to the GP are GP fans - that should answer that question.

Like touring car meetings. They watch it on TV and then go to see banger racing, err I mean the creme de la creme of saloon car racing.

A LOT of people do not realise that there are other race meetings on, because they are just not publicised.

On here, we're preaching to the converted.

Without the circuits and the clubs backing up anything we do, we might as well p into the wind!

As much as many people hate it, we need to do it the American way with razzamataz, make it a family (yes, wives & children) event with something for them to do if they get bored.

If you pick up a typical American daily newspaper, which are usually broadsheets, you'll find anything up to a two page spread dedicated to "Auto Racing", which more often than not will be as much about their local 3/8mile dirt oval and their local heroes, as it will be about NASCAR, or some minority sport like IRL or ALMS (or even F1!!). Their meetings are well marketed, with midweek evening races attracting a few thousand spectators, giving a reasonable purse / start money / $1000 win money.

The difference is that the circuit owns/runs the meeting, perhaps with the exception of the occaisional big meetings put on by the regional or national "tours".

Our racing is all about some chums getting together to have a hoot on a track somewhere, which then gets organised by a club and becomes a championship etc...

Over there, it's as much an entertainment as it is a sport.

Their road course meetings are even put on with more marketing than anything we do.

Until people take that on board here, it'll stay as it is - pants!

[Tim 27]

Originally Posted by R59

99% of people who go to the GP are GP fans - that should answer that question.

Sorry R59, I totally disagree.
Taking the average British Grand Prix crowd, I'm quite convinced that the vast majority of them couldn't name more than 6 or 7 drivers including Lewis and Jenson.
The fact that the majority of the GP paying public make this the ONLY motorsport event they attend in the year has always surprised and saddened me.
You state that the average public do not know a race meeting is being held through lack of publicity, which I also find hard to understand.
If the enthusiasm is there, it only takes a few clicks of a mouse or a browse through Autosport in the local papershop to find out.
How did the much larger crowds of the 50's, 60's and 70's find out without the aid of the internet or widespread magazine coverage that we have now?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by R59

If you pick up a typical American daily newspaper, which are usually broadsheets, you'll find anything up to a two page spread dedicated to "Auto Racing", which more often than not will be as much about their local 3/8mile dirt oval and their local heroes, as it will be about NASCAR, or some minority sport like IRL or ALMS (or even F1!!). Their meetings are well marketed, with midweek evening races attracting a few thousand spectators, giving a reasonable purse / start money / $1000 win money.

You are talking about short oval racing and whilst the UK scene may not be to the same level it's still doing reasonably well.

If you want to do a proper comparison with the 750MC/BRSCC/BARC type meetings being discussed here then you need to look to SCCA, which gets nothing like the sort of coverage you are talking about.

[andy97]

This has been discussed time and again in the 6 years I have been a member on here and nothing has changed. Castle Combe seem to be doing reasonably OK for themselves but no one else has taken up their business model. Even MSVR act in a similar way to the other clubs. The circuits clearly don't want to take on any risk & the clubs have no incentive to spend money on marketing. I would have thought that they would be able to work together to maximise their joint revenue. I live one mile from Donington Park & yet I never see any attempt at marketing events there, except maybe for the bigger biker racing events. OK, if you are an enthusiast you'll find out but with the large population centres of Nottingham, Derby & Birmingham close by you'd have though that they may have tried something.

If Oval racing is so popular (relatively) I wonder why the circuits have not added a short oval to their infrastructure (don't worry, I think I know the answer to that!!!)

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Tim 27

Taking the average British Grand Prix crowd, I'm quite convinced that the vast majority of them couldn't name more than 6 or 7 drivers including Lewis and Jenson.

Neither could I!

If the enthusiasm is there, it only takes a few clicks of a mouse or a browse through Autosport in the local papershop to find out.
How did the much larger crowds of the 50's, 60's and 70's find out without the aid of the internet or widespread magazine coverage that we have now?

It seems to me that in the 1950s/60s/70s motor sport was much more "mainstream" than it is now. For example, the Manchester evening News used to carry regular reports by Duncan Measor (who, incidentally, died recently) covering, if I remember correctly, just about every meeting at Oulton; TV used to cover more than just F1 & BTCC banger racing as part of normal sports coverage.

[mark_l]

If an circuit/club advertises an event, then the paying public will expect food outlets to be open, which for the food vendors is probably not financially viable. Extra spectators means extra stewarding in the grandstands, this being another added cost for the promoter.

It is easier and cheaper not to advertise and just take the money of the few hundred who will turn up at the gate, the less that is spent on an event the less needs to be recouped to break even.

[R59]

Mark - you have hit the nail on the head. This is the easy option. Anything else takes risk, and that means doing some work to achieve the goal.

Redshoes, as you are well aware, oval racing is much more popular in the 'States, mostly because it is supported, and promoted.
Road course racing is similar to what we see here, the mainstream media are not that interested in it.

I remember when I was a kid, Anglia TV used to have a programme called "Wheels" that covered short oval racing in the region, and there was a lot of it. We had speedway on at least once a week too. Since Football has become the be-all and end-all of sports, due to mass marketing, it's taken over as the one and only sport in the media's eye, unless our national teams in other sports stand half a chance of winning something.

Without mass media support, motor racing will never return to the halcyon days of the '60s, though we don't have the characters that we had then. Can you imagine Button, Hamilton, etc.. racing in the BTCC, LMES, as well as F1 through the season, and anything else that has wheels on it? I'm sure that having a circuit inside Greater London, Crystal Palace, helped as most of the media types couldn't leave the city, or their heads would explode in the clean fresh air!

If they get sprinting back at the 'Palace, perhaps it might stir some interest again?

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by R59

If every circuit operated the way that they do, building a hardcore of around 3000 spectators for every meeting, that would boost our motorport fanatics base dramatically, and hopefully some sort of snowball effect may happen. However, the downside is that circuits would have to pick and choose what raced at their meetings to ensure the paying public were entertained. Some of our races, even those with burgeoning grids, are boring processional affairs with boring droning cars. Punters (average Joe off the street) wants to see "angry cars" going fast, being spectacular. That to me is cars like Thundersaloons, Can-Am, F5000 (you might see a similarity here, something to do with V8's!!).

At the moment in the UK the best race championships by far (in my opinion) would have to be (in no specific order) Stock Hatch, Sax Max, Formula Vee, Ma5da Racing, Mighty Mini's, Legends. None of which have V8's, in fact I was at the masters a few weeks ago, they had V8's but the numbers were very very low and the crowd was even lower.
I read a thread (think it was in the marshals forum), saying the best meeting so far this year was the BRSCC meeting at Brands a few weeks back as they had big grids with 'normal' cars. And you dont normaly see the words 'big grids' and 'BRSCC' in the same line.
There is some cracking club racing out there at the moment even with the credit crunch (something like 70 stock hatch per meeting), and the TV coverage seems to be getting beter with motors TV showing more championships through the year (if only they managed to get them on the air quicker).