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Old 22 Jun 2011, 17:21 (Ref:2904330)   #1
Spritle
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V6 Engines for 2014

Ratification pending although no mention of the turbo issue in this article:

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52179.html

But it is mentioned here:

http://www.pitpass.com/43984-F1-dela...-green-formula
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 17:26 (Ref:2904334)   #2
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And once again the FIA changes its mind....
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 17:32 (Ref:2904337)   #3
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when the prancing horse stamps its feet......
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 18:30 (Ref:2904363)   #4
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Why are they now forcing V6 engines? Can't they just say 1.6L turbocharged with any number of cylinders you want?
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 18:47 (Ref:2904371)   #5
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Two important victories for Montezemolo in only a few weeks time: blown diffuser ban and V6-engines.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 19:21 (Ref:2904392)   #6
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I don't see that, it's probably cheaper and easier this way. I'll laugh when teams start to say they were in favor of the 4 cylinder engine. Because none were, not even Renault.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 19:41 (Ref:2904404)   #7
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I think this is an excellent compromise deal for the following reasons:

1) everyone should agree
2) Bernie will like the noise - and so will the fans
3) the chassis designers will like the torsional rigidity of a V6
4) the engine designers will have an easier time making the thing last
5) the aero boys will have twin exhausts for aero blowing
6) The manufacturers will have something road relevant

the only downside is the cost, but the current engines really are not relevant to mainstream automotive, and this has been the way for about 20 years unfortunatley......despite the late change I really do believe this is for the better
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 20:30 (Ref:2904424)   #8
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Originally Posted by knighty View Post
I think this is an excellent compromise deal for the following reasons:

1) everyone should agree
2) Bernie will like the noise - and so will the fans
3) the chassis designers will like the torsional rigidity of a V6
4) the engine designers will have an easier time making the thing last
5) the aero boys will have twin exhausts for aero blowing
6) The manufacturers will have something road relevant

the only downside is the cost, but the current engines really are not relevant to mainstream automotive, and this has been the way for about 20 years unfortunatley......despite the late change I really do believe this is for the better
What is there about F1 that is truly relevant to mainstream automotive?
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 20:37 (Ref:2904428)   #9
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Originally Posted by REALIST View Post
What is there about F1 that is truly relevant to mainstream automotive?
An engineering and management training ground perhaps. That's about it.

Wel, apart from some influence over worldwide brand awareness.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 20:41 (Ref:2904431)   #10
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I'm pleased with this.

Oh no, that's wrong. I hate this. F1 is a joke. A massive U-Turn. Just like when they went back to slicks. A joke. Just like when they banned traction control again after allowing it. The ban on refueling - a joke. More overtaking, pah, a ridiculous change in direction.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 20:45 (Ref:2904433)   #11
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Originally Posted by REALIST View Post
What is there about F1 that is truly relevant to mainstream automotive?
It's F1 trying to plug the gap left by the demise of sportscars.

Formula One doesn't need to be about road relevance, nor should it be. It's meant to be about building cars to go round a track as quickly as possible. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's the FIA's job to ensure it's done safely and (sort of) affordably. Again, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not sure what Todt is trying to do here with motor sport, he seems to have one policy and one policy only - to downsize everything in every single category. And with the FIA announcing the WEC, where does any category have its USP?
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 20:57 (Ref:2904439)   #12
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Originally Posted by REALIST View Post
What is there about F1 that is truly relevant to mainstream automotive?
It doesn't need any road relevance, but rather than Ferrari vs Mercedes vs Renault, you'd have Red Bull vs Coca-Cola vs Sony.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 22:04 (Ref:2904476)   #13
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Once upon a time F1 engines were 1.5 litres and turbocharged.Then somebody decided that these were too complex and expensive as well as too powerful;so they were eliminated.Their replacements were larger and had more cylinders and actually cost more to make but they were held to be good because the wise men said so.After a few years and a reduction in capacity and the number of cylinders,not to mention a rev limit,the FIA have decided that smaller turbocharged engines are a good idea.When this had been announced,Ferrari-who receive a bigger share of the money than anybody else and who appear to have a right of veto on rule changes-got grumpy and now the FIA are allowing more cylinders.Will they all live happily ever after?
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 22:33 (Ref:2904496)   #14
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Originally Posted by P38 in workshop View Post
Once upon a time F1 engines were 1.5 litres and turbocharged.Then somebody decided that these were too complex and expensive as well as too powerful;so they were eliminated.Their replacements were larger and had more cylinders and actually cost more to make but they were held to be good because the wise men said so.After a few years and a reduction in capacity and the number of cylinders,not to mention a rev limit,the FIA have decided that smaller turbocharged engines are a good idea.When this had been announced,Ferrari-who receive a bigger share of the money than anybody else and who appear to have a right of veto on rule changes-got grumpy and now the FIA are allowing more cylinders.Will they all live happily ever after?
At least the V6 is the right architecture for a turbo engine.
I4 is just plain wrong - I3 may have some merit.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 22:46 (Ref:2904500)   #15
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I'm happier with V6 turbo than a straight 4 turbo. However i'd rather not have turbo's at all, i'd rather have a mixture of V8, V10 and V12 engines.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 22:53 (Ref:2904506)   #16
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Originally Posted by knighty View Post
I think this is an excellent compromise deal for the following reasons:

1) everyone should agree
2) Bernie will like the noise - and so will the fans
3) the chassis designers will like the torsional rigidity of a V6
4) the engine designers will have an easier time making the thing last
5) the aero boys will have twin exhausts for aero blowing
6) The manufacturers will have something road relevant

the only downside is the cost, but the current engines really are not relevant to mainstream automotive, and this has been the way for about 20 years unfortunately......despite the late change I really do believe this is for the better
Yup, good news as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 23:50 (Ref:2904532)   #17
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Can't they just say 1.6L turbocharged with any number of cylinders you want?
Totally agree. Why can't they decide upon engine displacement rather than number o cylinders? I thing they could even let turbo X asp run free again, cause it's easy to equal performance working on turbo pressure.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 02:42 (Ref:2904553)   #18
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I'm pleased with this.

Oh no, that's wrong. I hate this. F1 is a joke. A massive U-Turn. Just like when they went back to slicks. A joke. Just like when they banned traction control again after allowing it. The ban on refueling - a joke. More overtaking, pah, a ridiculous change in direction.
I might have known...

F1 is rubbish and I am taking up lawn balling as this pastmhytime is way too stressful...

Complain to the the management if you have any issues...
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 03:40 (Ref:2904558)   #19
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5) the aero boys will have twin exhausts for aero blowing
*cough* only if it's twin turbo...
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 05:45 (Ref:2904580)   #20
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*cough* only if it's twin turbo...
If there is only 1 then there is no point in having a V6 - noooooo...
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 07:57 (Ref:2904617)   #21
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*cough* only if it's twin turbo...
correct, perhaps I was getting carried away there, there is no evidence yet weather it will be single or twin turbo, there are plentty of arguments for going either way, but I know this (twin) was the preferred route in the 1.5 days for tunnel blowing reasons, but they were running ground effect too and this is also now a very controversial issue in itself, hence the I4's became obsolete compared to the V6's......anyway.........

I'm a chartered engineer and I have worked in the automotive powertrain design and development industry for 12 years now, a blend of both race and road engine R&D, I'm currently in the micro (small) hybrid sector, and I must say that due to F1 being totally non road relevant the V10 and V8 NA years there has been hardly no technology handover between the road and race engine sectors, despite all the bull that the manufacturers feed you.......then the FIA introduce KERS and 1.6 turbos and for the last year or so I'm presonally experiencing a technology transfer between both F1 race and road engine industries.........so with F1's new direction F1 IS now road relevant, but was not a few years back.......the FIA are doing a good job in my book, particularly Jean Todt.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 16:39 (Ref:2904806)   #22
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So being so close to the new IndyCar specs will the engines on IndyCar side match displacement? If so what then?
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 16:42 (Ref:2904808)   #23
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My understanding is that modern turbos have all but eliminated turbo lag due to the use of things like variable vane and twin scroll technology. If it hasn't been completely eliminated, then it's up to the clever people at the engine factories to find solutions to that problem.

Whether or not they have one, two or whatever number of turbos, I'm sure that they will seek to make them as efficient as possible anyways. Having the need for fewer turbos would be a step in that direction.

Pleased to see that V6 engine is being looked at (less room for turbos though).
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 16:58 (Ref:2904814)   #24
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I would have allowed both I4s and V6s (under an equalization system similar to WSB; I.E. a fixed mathematical formula that adjusts boost pressures or revs for each configuration based on race and qualifying results), but this is a step in the right move if finally the sport can get on with bringing back turbos. It should make the cars a bit more of a handful to drive, hopefully. How exactly the rules should work I don't know, but I'd like to see a single turbo system and stronger energy regeneration.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 17:13 (Ref:2904823)   #25
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It should make the cars a bit more of a handful to drive, hopefully.
I wouldn't bank on it. The V8's are still likely to be far 'peakier' in their power delivery than the new turbo engines with new turbo technology. Particularly given that they aren't trying to get 1500 bhp from 1.5 litres any more.
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