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Old 26 Sep 2013, 21:31 (Ref:3309800)   #126
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Reminder about this RCE article which just happened to simulate a 4L V8 (vs 2.8 V6T):

http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Arti...014-LapSim.pdf
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Old 27 Sep 2013, 03:07 (Ref:3309873)   #127
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How come there aren't more manufacturers building petrol turbo engines? Isn't this engine type becoming more and more "road relevant", at least in America. Is Porsche going to be turbo or naturally aspirated?
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Old 27 Sep 2013, 05:51 (Ref:3309899)   #128
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How come there aren't more manufacturers building petrol turbo engines? Isn't this engine type becoming more and more "road relevant", at least in America. Is Porsche going to be turbo or naturally aspirated?
Porsche's engine is definitely a turbo-charged petrol engine. That's probably the only thing we can be sure about at this stage.
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 00:43 (Ref:3310284)   #129
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Originally Posted by carsten66 View Post
Audi to offer customer LMP1 engines deriving from their DTM V8 engine modified by Neil Brown Engineering (NBE) according to motorsport-total:

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-13092602.html

I hope that this customer engine be more successful than the 2007 Lola Audi.
http://fourtitude.com/news/motorspor...ecar-for-2007/
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 01:37 (Ref:3310296)   #130
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I think the same. The Power of that engine will go around 530-550 bhp, so in my opinion that is to low. They will need more power.
There is more to life than peak horsepower. It's just a number.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 17:21 (Ref:3314212)   #131
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Judd 4.4 V8 confirmed.
http://sportscar365.com/wec/judd-dev...gine-for-2014/
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 17:41 (Ref:3314226)   #132
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so, Judd, AER, and HPD will have engines available to privateers. Not a bad list, but I just can't see all three of these options being utilized next season. Especially since the only team to confirm their entry is Rebellion with a Toyota engine.

Oak and Adess will both have cars turning laps (if not racing) next season so they will both need engines. The HPD would be the safe choice and Oak has utilized their engines in an lmp1 last season. I'm guessing Adess will choose whichever is cheapest since they are shopping for customers.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 18:39 (Ref:3314246)   #133
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The NBE/Audi DTM engine is missing on your list.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3314281)   #134
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They went bigger displacement V8, instead of the smaller turbo route or the V10. Seems Toyota isn't alone in their decision to run this type of engine. Variety is great!
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 20:49 (Ref:3314283)   #135
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Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
The NBE/Audi DTM engine is missing on your list.
Thanks, so including that here are the potential P1 engines:

Audi TDI
NBE/Audi DTM
Toyota (factory)
Toyota (rebellion)
Porsche
AER
Judd
HPD

That is 8 total engines possible to pair with a smaller number of committed teams
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 22:09 (Ref:3314312)   #136
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I still remember the rumours about a diesel Mecachrome engine based on their TEOS powertrain.... But I think that was just smoke

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-13081703.html
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 22:28 (Ref:3314315)   #137
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Talking about customer LMP1 engines, it has been reported that the DTM-derived V8 engine of Audi/NBE is being offered at a basis price of 70 kEUR which is claimed to be a very competitive price. Do we have any idea about the price tag of the engines offered by the competition (including Toyota/TMG's RV8KLM used by Rebellion) ?
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3314321)   #138
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That's really competitive, the cost capped lmp2 engines has a maximun price of 75000$
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 23:22 (Ref:3314332)   #139
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How close are the LMP2s to the cap or are they all right at it?
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 23:32 (Ref:3314334)   #140
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That's really competitive, the cost capped lmp2 engines has a maximun price of 75000$
That's indeed a very competitive (one could even say "aggressive") price it would seem, considering moreover that this DTM-derived engine is a pure race engine. Is it that they have so many units on stock from the past DTM seasons that they can price it in this way or that they are simply not planning to make much money on the sale of such units ?

Now, the motorsport-total.com article also refers to the fact that installation of such a V8 unit in an LMP1 is complex and requires a special gearbox, which may drive installation costs up as compared to the competition.
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Old 8 Oct 2013, 01:22 (Ref:3314362)   #141
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That's really competitive, the cost capped lmp2 engines has a maximun price of 75000$
I have no reason to believe any manufacturer would charge much less than maximum. Just make business sense.
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Old 8 Oct 2013, 01:39 (Ref:3314366)   #142
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I assumed they were all within 70-75k, but could make sense that Nissan is under-cutting pricing with volume.
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Old 8 Oct 2013, 01:51 (Ref:3314371)   #143
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I assumed they were all within 70-75k, but could make sense that Nissan is under-cutting pricing with volume.
I thought that too, but the Nissan lump is so good they can charge the max and people will buy it.
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Old 8 Oct 2013, 03:08 (Ref:3314385)   #144
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Now, the motorsport-total.com article also refers to the fact that installation of such a V8 unit in an LMP1 is complex and requires a special gearbox, which may drive installation costs up as compared to the competition.
LMP1 is so undersubscribed now that any car has to be a one-off job. Or at least the costs must be the same as a custom car when there's no market to justify an actual production run with possible economies of scale and instead just privateers "competing" for also-ran status running on the cheap with 2 sets of spares or less.

Last time customer cars were popular enough - probably two stupid knee-jerk regulation changes ago - even something as mundane as a Lola varied immensely from one order to another with different engines, yearly hardware updates, a bespoke gearbox if you wanted to do it right and actual sales so low that they were in the end in almost no way mass-produced or even interchangeable. They were already custom builds 5 years ago and now costs for such programs have certainly increased whilst the already minuscule sales potential has been halved and halved again. Great threads about pipedream cars and engines - I certainly find the potential field very interesting, just as I sometimes dream of what might have been if Dome S102s, HPD ARX-01Es, Oreca 02s and Epsilon-Euskadi EE02s had actually been developed and raced when the projects were at their most promising - but I'm afraid most of them won't ever hit the track.
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Old 23 Oct 2013, 15:32 (Ref:3322164)   #145
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http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...-unit-in-2014/
Zytek to offer LMP1 engine based off Formula Renault 3.5 engine

* increased to 4.5L
* may add direct injection to help with fuel flow management
* in addition, 2 MJ and 4 MJ hybrid options available based off of Super GT hybrid systems
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Old 23 Oct 2013, 16:05 (Ref:3322172)   #146
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The fact that it is derived from their Formula Renault 3.5 engine, seems pure marketing. All the Zytek V8s more or less share the same DNA.

This engine is probably a reincarnation of their 4.5 V8 LMP1 engine.
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Old 23 Oct 2013, 16:14 (Ref:3322174)   #147
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Interesting both Judd and zytek are going an almost identical route, I'm reading 4.5L for Zytek, and 4.4L for Judd........the only thing that concerns me is reliability........big capacity flat-plane V8 endurance engines have bean real "bone-shakers" and they tend to rattle the chassis to pieces........hmm......one to watch, but I must say based on previous results for this type of engine, I am not excited by this news.........personally I think the days of shoe-string LMP1 efforts are gone, therefore anyone entering LMP1 will have decent engine plans and budget, therefore go to Toyota or HPD as the default customer LMP1 engine.........I think Judd will be on the back foot as they dont have the KERS system integration "one-stop-shop" offer that Zytek can offer.
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Old 23 Oct 2013, 16:46 (Ref:3322188)   #148
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It appears to be an interesting exercise in engineering, for a market with barely any customers, that most certainly cannot possibly support any business model.

Audi, Toyota, HPD, Judd, AER, Zytek engines all available for a market of somewhere between one to four teams likely.

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Old 23 Oct 2013, 18:27 (Ref:3322228)   #149
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It's a bit of a headscratcher all these P1 powerplants popping up. There has to be more going on behind the scenes - as Sam Collins alluded to on Twitter.
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Old 23 Oct 2013, 19:04 (Ref:3322245)   #150
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It as to be something!!!!... why to promote all this engine´s if they don´t have interest of some teams.

OAK is one of them??? Who are the other´s???
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