WEC LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules) - Page 223

Deleted · 3 Apr 2018, 12:02 (Ref:3812625)

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/i...rototype-regs/

“I think if it was a very cost-contained spec hybrid system, then that could be interesting,” Honda Performance Development VP and COO Steve Eriksen told Sportscar365.

Said no-one ever.

“If they do hybrid, it would need to be a standardized off-the-shelf system,” Doonan said. “As soon as we get into the pandora’s box of developing a system of your own, the costs graph goes straight to the moon.

I wonder what people in the industry just 20 years ago would have thought of statements like that.

“I think we need to be smart here, keep the regulations as consistent as we can, for as long as we can, and focus on the marketing… and to try and grow the audience [that way].”

Riiiiiiight that's the key to everything and has always worked out

carbsmith · 3 Apr 2018, 22:52 (Ref:3812696)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

"and focus on the marketing"

Pretty much Doonan's entire life ideology there.

Also having a good laugh at the HPD guy talking about IndyCar not having BoP.
http://redesign.autoweek.com/article...-race-so-paulo
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...dycar/2588457/
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...formula-coming
Ignoring the fact Honda has applied for performance equalization measures two or three times in this car generation, you don't need a formal BoP process when you just have HPD throwing a tantrum and getting the rules changed in their favour every year.

Anyways, a spec KERS is a complete and utter waste of money to anyone but desperate marketers trying to fake relevance. It offers zero racing or technology value while unquestionably adding to the team operating budgets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Do the rules allow a car manufacturer to make a non-hybrid customer car for privateers? I'm thinking if someone like Porsche wanted to modify the 919 for non-hybrid regulations and sell it.

No, manufacturers can only make engines.

canaglia · 3 Apr 2018, 23:11 (Ref:3812698)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Pretty much Doonan's entire life ideology there.

Also having a good laugh at the HPD guy talking about IndyCar not having BoP.
http://redesign.autoweek.com/article...-race-so-paulo
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...dycar/2588457/
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...formula-coming
Ignoring the fact Honda has applied for performance equalization measures two or three times in this car generation, you don't need a formal BoP process when you just have HPD throwing a tantrum and getting the rules changed in their favour every year.

Anyways, a spec KERS is a complete and utter waste of money to anyone but desperate marketers trying to fake relevance. It offers zero racing or technology value while unquestionably adding to the team operating budgets.

No, manufacturers can only make engines.

Trust me, each hybrid hardware used in lmp1 and f1 come from already well developed technologies and know how; just transplanted from other fields like military aerospace engineering (porsche 919 batteries were developed taking satellites ones as base) in motorsport.
There is any real technology improvement at all.... and most fo all there is any large automotive knowledge sharing, being these components too much complex and expensive for that (cars like laferrari or 919 aren't "exactly" large automotive market...).
To me is a complete waste to keep with this path....

me too would like to see dpi style cars equipped with a f1 2009 2MJ (spec or not spec) kers, to keep on with this almost green nazis lmp1-h madness.

roderick · 4 Apr 2018, 04:35 (Ref:3812729)

Quote:

Originally Posted by canaglia

Trust me, each hybrid hardware used in lmp1 and f1 come from already well developed technologies and know how; just transplanted from other fields like military aerospace engineering (porsche 919 batteries were developed taking satellites ones as base) in motorsport.
There is any real technology improvement at all.... and most for all there is any large automotive knowledge sharing, being these components too much complex and expensive for that (cars like laferrari or 919 aren't "exactly" large automotive market...).
To me is a complete waste to keep with this path....

me too would like to see dpi style cars equipped with a f1 2009 2MJ (spec or not spec) kers, to keep on with this almost green nazis lmp1-h madness.

Sorry to burst your bobble but toyota HV system is not sold anywhere or to anyone. believe it or not, it is made for this specific car for specific reason only. (Motors, batteries, ECU etc...) Some know how are adapted, some are original
the only components that's been well tested are things that's been adapted from F1.(most of F1 hybrid components are well tested and they all shear the same tech with other teams...)

TF110 · 4 Apr 2018, 08:24 (Ref:3812751)

An off the shelf hybrid system is kinda lame imo, but if they can buy a battery package and motors for a low cost it should be ok. Just as long as there is also room for Ford or Toyota etc. doing their own. That way no one is forced to use some spec piece of equipment that has no real value to the brand.

Tique · 4 Apr 2018, 11:19 (Ref:3812780)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Do the rules allow a car manufacturer to make a non-hybrid customer car for privateers? I'm thinking if someone like Porsche wanted to modify the 919 for non-hybrid regulations and sell it.

A 919 with a good old Flat-6 might be interesting.

Deleted · 4 Apr 2018, 11:23 (Ref:3812782)

Mandated cost capped spec hybrid sounds about as interesting as current DPis slapping the hybrid-sticker to the shark fin next to their rebranded Nissan/Acura/Cadillac/Mazda stickers. Useless nonsense that benefits no-one.

And even if you ended up with a regulation where you could choose between spec hybrid and hybrid system of your own, it would lead to another BoP nonsense arguing route as the cheap option would be absolute ineffective trash since the DPi teams don't want to spend any extra money on keeping up with it. It would be the Hoosier-Conti of hybrids against Michelins of hybrids

**joeb** · 4 Apr 2018, 13:42 (Ref:3812802)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

Mandated cost capped spec hybrid sounds about as interesting as current DPis slapping the hybrid-sticker to the shark fin next to their rebranded Nissan/Acura/Cadillac/Mazda stickers. Useless nonsense that benefits no-one.

That just gave me an idea, why don't they just put the hybrid stickers on right now? The cars are a hybrid of a lmp2 and something else, so it wouldn't be inaccurate. Plus some people might see the stickers and think the cars are a gas/electric hybrid, so it is win win for the series!

Deleted · 4 Apr 2018, 18:23 (Ref:3812860)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

That just gave me an idea, why don't they just put the hybrid stickers on right now? The cars are a hybrid of a lmp2 and something else, so it wouldn't be inaccurate. Plus some people might see the stickers and think the cars are a gas/electric hybrid, so it is win win for the series!

Why not, what they've got to lose

Deleted · 9 Apr 2018, 13:20 (Ref:3814400)

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...en-lmp1-rules/

Neveu added: “If you deliver a fantastic idea but you only have one manufacturer, there is no chance to survive like that. If you find a compromise and you have three, four, five manufacturers [on board], you have to follow this direction.

I'd rather take the fantastic idea with one manufacturer, rather than cop-out compromise idea just because you're desperate to lure more people in for the particular moment. It's supposed to be the premiere sportscar category in the world. Every class below has already been transformed into catering service, why does this one as well.

Also while this sounds positive in first look I'm sure it would lead to can of worms very soon:

Neveu said they would be open to the possibility of mandating the customer sales of all factory prototypes, similar to a rule currently enforced in the ABB FIA Formula E Championship with manufacturer powertrains.

chernaudi · 9 Apr 2018, 13:48 (Ref:3814406)

Only way for privateers to be able to run factory built cars is if they're cheaper and easier to run. One hybrid system might allow for that.

Also IMO means that there could be room for a LMP1/DPI convergence.

TF110 · 9 Apr 2018, 16:35 (Ref:3814455)

I'm for customer cars if they actually get sold. I don't want dumbed down prototypes though. No bop machines or upgraded lmp2's. A flat fuel flow rate and a max output on hybrid power sounds reasonable to me. The customer car situation could work if private teams want to run something that looks like that Toyota lmp road car or maybe a McLaren etc. That might justify teams making these cars because they can be bought and run in another series besides the WEC, like IMSA.

EffectiveSprinkles · 9 Apr 2018, 16:40 (Ref:3814457)

I'm hoping the road car thing is quietly dropped.

TF110 · 9 Apr 2018, 18:50 (Ref:3814485)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

I'm hoping the road car thing is quietly dropped.

As in homologation specials? That's not what they are going for, just some road car looks afaik.

EffectiveSprinkles · 9 Apr 2018, 19:38 (Ref:3814506)

That's what I meant. It seems utterly pointless.

TRuss · 11 Apr 2018, 17:52 (Ref:3814908)

If that’s what the manufacturers want and they want manufacturers, then...

TF110 · 17 Apr 2018, 16:24 (Ref:3816218)

Autosport talking a little about bmw possibly returning to lmp1 with a hydrogen fuel cell car. The ACO seems like they want alternative fuels in the near future around the new regulations.

S griffin · 18 Apr 2018, 11:22 (Ref:3816330)

That would be good, another LMP manufacturer

Mike E · 18 Apr 2018, 11:33 (Ref:3816334)

This would be years away, if it happened at all.
This is BMW making all the right, ACO-friendly noises before LM BoP is set...

Badlands99 · 18 Apr 2018, 13:22 (Ref:3816355)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

This would be years away, if it happened at all.
This is BMW making all the right, ACO-friendly noises before LM BoP is set...

Like Ford always do you mean ..................

TF110 · 18 Apr 2018, 17:07 (Ref:3816388)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

This would be years away, if it happened at all.
This is BMW making all the right, ACO-friendly noises before LM BoP is set...

"Give our M8 good bop, we'll enter lmp1 soon" type of deal?

Juntos · 20 Apr 2018, 22:32 (Ref:3816711)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

That would be good, another LMP manufacturer

Don't put all your hopes in David Cheng.

TF110 · 4 May 2018, 20:49 (Ref:3819532)

Aston Martin are in talks with the rule makers about returning as long as the budgets aren't much higher than what GTE is now.

RedSquirrel · 4 May 2018, 21:56 (Ref:3819543)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Aston Martin are in talks with the rule makers about returning as long as the budgets aren't much higher than what GTE is now.

But GTE budgets are less than €15 million...This is a manufacturer that supposedly also wants to build Formula 1 engines in 2021 yet they aren't willing to spend a reasonable amount of money to race in the top class at Le Mans, cars that are as fast as Indycars. I wish the automotive media would stop publishing rubbish like this.

**Adam43** · 4 May 2018, 22:01 (Ref:3819544)

When will the British motor sport press reveal the truth?

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