Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > North American Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Jun 2012, 05:34 (Ref:3085429)   #526
Spyderman
Veteran
 
Spyderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Mozambique
Mozambique
Posts: 4,642
Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Spyderman is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 05:38 (Ref:3085433)   #527
gustavobamba
Veteran
 
gustavobamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Portugal
Viana do Castelo
Posts: 1,222
gustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
In a few day´s I will post a sketch of my interpretation of the P1 Porsche...
gustavobamba is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 05:44 (Ref:3085436)   #528
Spyderman
Veteran
 
Spyderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Mozambique
Mozambique
Posts: 4,642
Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I am not really a fan of the looks of the current LMP1's. I apologies ahead to the Audi and Toyota fans, but I think that both the Audi's and the Toyota's are very ugly (especially in profile). I was rather hoping that the Porsche LMP1 would be more attractive (not necessarily one of Porsche's strong points). Of course, my main concern is that it is quick. I would rather have an ugly car but very quick than the opposite.
My concern is that their new wind-tunnel will only be completed in the first half of 2014.
Spyderman is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 06:42 (Ref:3085444)   #529
deggis
Veteran
 
deggis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Finland
Posts: 6,206
deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GT3.14 View Post
I don't think that works teams would like sponsors' names taking up a lot of space where they would like to put the name of the marque. I imagine Porsche approved the funding for the P1 programme so they could spend an obscene amount of money so that the car that wins Le Mans in 2014 says Porsche on the billboard/fin, not Total or Bosch. Each millimetre of that bodywork is going to be valuable real estate and Porsche is going to want to put their name there, not sell it.
Each euro not spent from Porsche's pocket but instead from the sponsor's pocket... is not valuable?

History and present seems to disagree with you. Look at manufacturer teams in F1, all but BMW had a title sponsor and liveries made accordingly with the sponsor in mind. Or look at WSPC/IMSA heydays (well, excluding Mercedes'). And look especially at Porsche's past liveries.

It's probably more about sponsors not coming to the teams with big enough bag of money (big enough for title sponsoring). Hopefully not yet.

Last edited by deggis; 5 Jun 2012 at 06:48.
deggis is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 08:56 (Ref:3085479)   #530
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,377
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
I don't see how they're ugly LMP1 cars. Every LMP1 is relatively close in looks. What else would they look like? Peugeot's car was ugly too? It's at the point where it's not the makes fault, but the rules. I like Audi and Toyota's cars. And I really liked Peugeot's as well. I'll probably like Porsche's! I hope it's a nice color, that can really make or break the look. Maybe you don't like the wider fenders? I'd rather today's LMP1's than today's F1's. That's certain.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:04 (Ref:3085481)   #531
Pandamasque
Veteran
 
Pandamasque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Ukraine
Kyiv, Ukraine
Posts: 2,203
Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
I'd rather today's LMP1's than today's F1's. That's certain.
But that doesn't say much
Pandamasque is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:05 (Ref:3085482)   #532
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,377
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Even before the stepped nose. I'm speaking of post 09 regs.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:18 (Ref:3085489)   #533
arakis
Veteran
 
arakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Serbia
Belgrade,Serbia
Posts: 2,900
arakis has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
With the exception of the GT1 era...prototypes were always ugly to me...(maybe some exceptions in the past) but today's P cars really look hideus, (never liked the look of F1 cars either) ....they should bring back GT1 rules for 2014...(design wise, not the homologation sham that it was)..
arakis is offline  
__________________
To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car.
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:24 (Ref:3085493)   #534
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,528
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
But that's because essentially you're a GT man......... Not a problem, you're entitled to be - others, like me, are prototype people..... Having said that, I loved the GT1s too....
Aysedasi is online now  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:46 (Ref:3085500)   #535
deggis
Veteran
 
deggis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Finland
Posts: 6,206
deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arakis View Post
....they should bring back GT1 rules for 2014...(design wise, not the homologation sham that it was)..
That's an oxymoron.
deggis is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:56 (Ref:3085506)   #536
Simmi
Veteran
 
Simmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,993
Simmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by deggis View Post
Each euro not spent from Porsche's pocket but instead from the sponsor's pocket... is not valuable?

History and present seems to disagree with you. Look at manufacturer teams in F1, all but BMW had a title sponsor and liveries made accordingly with the sponsor in mind. Or look at WSPC/IMSA heydays (well, excluding Mercedes'). And look especially at Porsche's past liveries.

It's probably more about sponsors not coming to the teams with big enough bag of money (big enough for title sponsoring). Hopefully not yet.
No one is disputing that sponsorship dollars aren't valuable. But I have to disagree in terms of Le Mans when it comes to the marketing aspect. You have to go a long way back to find a fully-integrated sponsorship livery on a winning car at LM. Certainly back to maybe the Joest Porsches in 96/97.

You could argue that the '98 winner borrowed a lot from Mobil 1. Maybe not the full livery. Also you have the Total and Peugeot. They had the named title sponsor thing but they didn't slap Total over the entirety of the car. That's kind of what I'm talking about. I know you've got a lot of Audi dominance in there to skew things. BMW won in '99 without a title sponsor. The subliminal Malboro decals I'm sure suited Toyota just fine too.
Simmi is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 10:22 (Ref:3085520)   #537
deggis
Veteran
 
deggis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Finland
Posts: 6,206
deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi View Post
No one is disputing that sponsorship dollars aren't valuable. But I have to disagree in terms of Le Mans when it comes to the marketing aspect. You have to go a long way back to find a fully-integrated sponsorship livery on a winning car at LM. Certainly back to maybe the Joest Porsches in 96/97.

You could argue that the '98 winner borrowed a lot from Mobil 1. Maybe not the full livery. Also you have the Total and Peugeot. They had the named title sponsor thing but they didn't slap Total over the entirety of the car. That's kind of what I'm talking about. I know you've got a lot of Audi dominance in there to skew things. BMW won in '99 without a title sponsor. The subliminal Malboro decals I'm sure suited Toyota just fine too.
Doesn't this all still tell more about the attractiveness of the race/sport than willingness to take sponsors?
deggis is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 10:34 (Ref:3085528)   #538
Spyderman
Veteran
 
Spyderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Mozambique
Mozambique
Posts: 4,642
Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
I don't see how they're ugly LMP1 cars. Every LMP1 is relatively close in looks. What else would they look like?

Obviously the rules are what largely determine the looks of the car. I just prefer my cars without honking great dorsal fins, tiny and ultra- narrow bubble like cabins, weird lights and funky arched front fenders. It just a personal preference. I wish they would change the rules to enable better looking cars. Just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Peugeot's car was ugly too?
Yes, most definitely...although it was less so than the Audi and the Toyota (It is just my opinion, I am sure that there are others that may find them as attractive as you do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
It's at the point where it's not the makes fault, but the rules.
See above

Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
I like Audi and Toyota's cars. And I really liked Peugeot's as well. I'll probably like Porsche's! I hope it's a nice color, that can really make or break the look. Maybe you don't like the wider fenders? I'd rather today's LMP1's than today's F1's. That's certain.
To be honest I see very little difference in the levels of unsightliness between today’s F1’s and the current LMP1’s
Spyderman is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 10:46 (Ref:3085534)   #539
ArnageWRC
Racer
 
ArnageWRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
UK-ROI
Nord Ouest Ingleterre
Posts: 389
ArnageWRC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by deggis View Post
Doesn't this all still tell more about the attractiveness of the race/sport than willingness to take sponsors?
It's actually a good point. It's easy to get caught up in all the sport - sometimes we need to step outside and see the 'bigger picture'. Saying that, F1 seems to 'Hoover up' most of the biggest sponsors, the rest of Motorsport fight over what's left.
ArnageWRC is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 18:28 (Ref:3085764)   #540
NaBUru38
Veteran
 
NaBUru38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Uruguay
Las Canteras, Uruguay
Posts: 10,356
NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!
Manufacturers can choose their own liveries but have major sponsors too. The best example is Ferrari and their red 430s and 458s. The Peugeots and the new Toyota also had decent logos.
NaBUru38 is offline  
__________________
Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed!
by NaBUrean Prodooktionz
naburu38.itch.io
Quote
Old 5 Jun 2012, 23:24 (Ref:3085982)   #541
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,377
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
I guess some people would rather watch a car that has hardly any relevance to the real world and some people would rather see their favorite makes go for overall wins at a 24hour race. To me, LMPs are purpose built machines. Holes in the fenders, fins on engine covers- Oh well, they still look the part, and sound it (in non-diesel form).
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 10:42 (Ref:3086164)   #542
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,144
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
I guess some people would rather watch a car that has hardly any relevance to the real world and some people would rather see their favorite makes go for overall wins at a 24hour race. To me, LMPs are purpose built machines. Holes in the fenders, fins on engine covers- Oh well, they still look the part, and sound it (in non-diesel form).
A lot of people watch F1 and that has hardly any relevance to the real world. However, in this case, you can still watch your favorite makes go for overall wins at a 24hour race as well as seeing something new which has some relevance to real world, in that it doesn't use as much fuel.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 15:50 (Ref:3086331)   #543
Articus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,755
Articus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Could Roger Penske cozy up with Porsche they way Joest is with audi and now Oreca with Toyota?
Articus is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 15:54 (Ref:3086333)   #544
Spyderman
Veteran
 
Spyderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Mozambique
Mozambique
Posts: 4,642
Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I don't know, but when the LMP1 project was first announced, I remember reading that he had said that he was interested in talking with Porsche.
Spyderman is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 15:54 (Ref:3086334)   #545
CTD
Veteran
 
CTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Denmark
Aarhus, Jylland, Denmark
Posts: 6,654
CTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Articus View Post
Could Roger Penske cozy up with Porsche they way Joest is with audi and now Oreca with Toyota?
As Penske is highly involved in other series and don't have an ready team to offer Porsche - No, i don't think Porsche would gain much from Penske.
CTD is offline  
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan)
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 17:28 (Ref:3086382)   #546
Fogelhund
Veteran
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Canada
Binbrook, ON Canada
Posts: 6,958
Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!Fogelhund has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTD View Post
As Penske is highly involved in other series and don't have an ready team to offer Porsche - No, i don't think Porsche would gain much from Penske.
Of course it wouldn't take much to put together a team, and I doubt there are any other options available that are nearly as capable, with a team/crew sitting around waiting for a "Porsche". I do believe Porsche would gain significantly from teaming up with Penske. Who else is near the quality?
Fogelhund is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 18:44 (Ref:3086443)   #547
Articus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,755
Articus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridArticus should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Of course it wouldn't take much to put together a team, and I doubt there are any other options available that are nearly as capable, with a team/crew sitting around waiting for a "Porsche". I do believe Porsche would gain significantly from teaming up with Penske. Who else is near the quality?
I'd me more than happy to see Penske say screw nascar and bring back the DHL boys...Roger Penske seemed interested. He would be more than willing. He has yet to win the LM24 overall and is probably making calls to find out if porsche are interested in partnering. Roger has money. Porsche has more money. Porsche dont need Rogers money but they could sure use him as an asset. Tim Cindric/Roger Penske.

Put some of those Indycar guys to work over LM weekend! Will Power in an LMP car on a road course....Whoes Anthony Davidson?
Articus is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 18:47 (Ref:3086448)   #548
manthey
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 209
manthey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
why not Manthey Racing?they already partecipated&won @ le mans (ok not with lmp1)
manthey is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 18:47 (Ref:3086449)   #549
CTD
Veteran
 
CTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Denmark
Aarhus, Jylland, Denmark
Posts: 6,654
CTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Of course it wouldn't take much to put together a team, and I doubt there are any other options available that are nearly as capable, with a team/crew sitting around waiting for a "Porsche". I do believe Porsche would gain significantly from teaming up with Penske. Who else is near the quality?
Both Oreca and Joest had a Le Mans team ready when they joined up with Toyota and Audi.
If Penske where to put a team together to be able to support Porsche, then Porsche could just as well put it together themselves.
The whole idea of teaming up with a team is to cut a corner and get some quick experience into the project.

For this, Pescarolo or Rebellion would be better choices
CTD is offline  
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan)
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2012, 18:54 (Ref:3086451)   #550
deggis
Veteran
 
deggis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Finland
Posts: 6,206
deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!deggis is going for a new world record!
Penske being in US doesn't sound logistically ideal.
deggis is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are there any differnces between a Porsche carerra cup Porsche and GT3 class Porsche? SALEEN S7R Sportscar & GT Racing 25 6 Feb 2008 21:06
New Porsche prototype (merged threads) BSchneiderFan Sportscar & GT Racing 265 5 Sep 2006 11:29
What is the differnce between the Porsche 996 and Porsche 911 GT3'rs? SALEEN S7R Sportscar & GT Racing 12 28 Mar 2003 11:36
Joest Porsche VS Factory Porsche H16 Sportscar & GT Racing 10 20 Dec 2001 14:07


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.