|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
15 Jan 2019, 08:38 (Ref:3876235) | #1801 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,399
|
And that's probably why Pirelli were chosen over Pirelli. Michelin were even pushing for a return to a tyre war
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
15 Jan 2019, 09:45 (Ref:3876243) | #1802 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,578
|
Quote:
You are overlooking the fact that when Pirelli won the last tender contest to supply tyres for Formula 1 that Michelin were also pursuing that contract. Michelin lost the bid because they would only supply tyres for 18" wheels, against the Pirelli bid which accepted to manufacture tyres for whatever diameter the FIA mandated. So, it would seem as though Michelin were also minded to provide crap tyres that met the FIA's specification. |
|||
|
15 Jan 2019, 11:08 (Ref:3876259) | #1803 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,871
|
Quote:
Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
16 Jan 2019, 05:12 (Ref:3876396) | #1804 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 39
|
Quote:
Michelin absolutely would not have followed the Pirelli route if they 'won' the tender...which I suspect is the main reason they did not apply...as opposed to the low profile tires, which are now coming anyway. Michelin: "deterioration of performance as a part of the show, goes against our principles of efficient resource management and respect for the technology of a sustainable tyre." |
||
|
16 Jan 2019, 11:20 (Ref:3876444) | #1805 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
Quote:
and if you don’t think michelin produce some unfit for purpose tyres you probably need to watch a bit more motorsport! |
||
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
16 Jan 2019, 12:56 (Ref:3876475) | #1806 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Another example of the herd thinking that blames Pirelli for everything and conveniently ignores the contracted details they have to follow to comply. if it was another company they would be copping it in the neck and be labelled incompetent as well. I can see why Michelin wanted a wheel size change and good on them for sticking to their guns, I think a lot of the problem is the stupid aspect ratio cannot handle the capabilities of these cars, the Mercedes photo that has been floating around shows exactly what I mean the tyre distortion is just stupid, more like drag slicks than circuit racing tyres. But ignore me and keep belting Pirelli because you have no other explanations.
|
|
|
16 Jan 2019, 23:02 (Ref:3876607) | #1807 | |||
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 39
|
Quote:
Quote:
Doubtful... |
|||
|
17 Jan 2019, 03:48 (Ref:3876625) | #1808 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Quote:
|
||
|
17 Jan 2019, 09:58 (Ref:3876664) | #1809 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 39
|
Paddy Lowe: "The subject of [larger diameter] wheels has been raised many times over the last five or eight years. The broad consensus is that going to bigger wheels is not a good direction. From a grip point of view it's not positive. Like for like, such tyres will have a lower grip and the weight will go up considerably, so it's not an attractive direction performance-wise.
|
|
|
17 Jan 2019, 11:09 (Ref:3876672) | #1810 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,723
|
Quote:
A low aspect ratio tyre, when installed on corectly designed suspension, has the ability to more accurately control the positioning and movement of the contact patch within the most ideal requirements. A larger light weight wheel with a smaller proportion of rubber to achieve the required diameter is surely lighter than the present specification. Yes, F1 suspension would require a revolution in design to substitute for the current situation where the tyre itself uses it's flexibility as the main springing function of the suspension. |
|||
__________________
Geting old is mandatory, acting old is optional. |
17 Jan 2019, 12:13 (Ref:3876688) | #1811 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
Quote:
not saying that low profile would be my choice, considering that almost all single seaters currently use 13” or similar, but i can’t see any definitive reasons that they’d be a terrible idea. formula e is a poor comparison since they have a totally different concept behind their tyres. even if they do practically run them as slicks in testing |
||
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
17 Jan 2019, 12:30 (Ref:3876691) | #1812 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,871
|
We are going OT but my thoughts are mostly inline with Oldtony. I think there are pros and cons to each option. I think the current tires probably do have more grip as they can deform more than short sidewall designs. I suspect the current ones are likely slightly lighter, but not by much. I agree that the shorter sidewall tires will be more responsive.
In general what Lowe was really defending was the status quo. So he talks only about the pros of the current tires and the cons of the others. Heads I win, tails you lose. He doesn’t paint a complete picture. The current tires are understood and the current suspension designs optimized for them. Moving to shorter sidewall tires will move more “movement” from the tires (sidewalls) to the actual suspension. The teams will have to move focus to suspension design. With the inherent risk that someone will get it wrong, or that a current trick solution doesn’t transition well. Would the fans see or notice a performance difference? Unlikely. And the difference may be minor in the end. I wouldn’t put money on which might be better (performance) in the long run. Especially as the car will change as well and comparisons that zero in on one feature change will be impossible or difficult. With that being said, I fully support the move to the lower sidewall tires. Of course none of this has any real relevance to Pirelli. Richard |
|
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
17 Jan 2019, 15:24 (Ref:3876741) | #1813 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,243
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
17 Jan 2019, 15:33 (Ref:3876743) | #1814 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Changing to a lower aspect tyre will fundamentally change car design and the last thing the top teams want is to upset the status quo because they can't reliably predict the outcome. Any team media releases will support the notion that larger wheels are not necessary.
|
|
|
17 Jan 2019, 15:59 (Ref:3876749) | #1815 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,243
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
17 Jan 2019, 16:12 (Ref:3876754) | #1816 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,578
|
|||
|
17 Jan 2019, 16:53 (Ref:3876767) | #1817 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,748
|
Quote:
from an engineering/technical point of view he may be wrong but this is F1 and perhaps he is making a judgment based on the only metric that matters...the size of his team's budget. |
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
17 Jan 2019, 17:04 (Ref:3876771) | #1818 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,748
|
Quote:
the teams, the drivers, and the fans dont really ever know how a compound will perform from track to track, stint to stint and that uncertainty basically lasts the whole season. Max's win is Austria this year is case in point. not the fastest car but he managed his unreliable and unpredictable tires in real time/real life and found a way to win. personally i want more of this not less and honestly im not sure how a more reliable more predictable tire is beneficial for me as a spectator. |
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
17 Jan 2019, 17:05 (Ref:3876773) | #1819 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,243
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
17 Jan 2019, 20:00 (Ref:3876823) | #1820 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,578
|
Quote:
Here is the press release/report of that test from Pirelli: https://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/n...e-9-july-2014/ Apparently the test was test the aesthetics of the design, rather than to determine any performance values. |
|||
|
18 Jan 2019, 01:48 (Ref:3876863) | #1821 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,871
|
Quote:
Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
18 Jan 2019, 01:51 (Ref:3876864) | #1822 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,871
|
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
18 Jan 2019, 03:25 (Ref:3876871) | #1823 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,527
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
18 Jan 2019, 17:52 (Ref:3877031) | #1824 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,243
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
18 Jan 2019, 17:53 (Ref:3877032) | #1825 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,243
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[Tech Issue] New tyre markings and softer compounds for Pirelli tyres | Marbot | Formula One | 7 | 26 Jan 2012 14:44 |
[Rules] Pirelli (ITA) : ban tyre changes under red flag. | duke_toaster | Formula One | 11 | 31 May 2011 03:15 |
The Pirelli Story | Dutton | Motorsport History | 1 | 13 Aug 2009 16:06 |
Pirelli win WRC tyre contract. | BertMk2 | Rallying & Rallycross | 14 | 5 Apr 2007 09:48 |
Pirelli tyre problems? | Asa | Sportscar & GT Racing | 3 | 18 Jul 2005 12:35 |