USCC (leave your axe outside)

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Oh no, another breakaway... Is SCCA supporting it this time?

If so then it will almost automatically be a failure.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Related as in they talked to GA in 2009, is not related to USCR or this thread.









L.P.

It's 2013. And March 26th is 9 days away. That's when the announcement is taking place. If you feel it's off topic from USCR that's not my problem. They are the the one's making the announcement.

Originally Posted by TF110

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106071

[Speed-King]

Audi being on board with US-DTM would probably also mean that they are out as far as a potential break away series is concerned.

The only chance a breakaway would have is massive manufacturer involvement, so I just don't see it happening.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Audi being on board with US-DTM would probably also mean that they are out as far as a potential break away series is concerned.

The only chance a breakaway would have is massive manufacturer involvement, so I just don't see it happening.

I don't think Audi need Grand Am. It's more along the lines of "here's our series, we will let you represent it in the U.S." On top of it, BMW was a main push with their desire to run internationally- their condition of joining DTM- to make it widespread. If the series appears to be more to Audi's liking they may do it. So far, in GA it's just customer R8's.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't think Audi need Grand Am. It's more along the lines of "here's our series, we will let you represent it in the U.S." On top of it, BMW was a main push with their desire to run internationally- their condition of joining DTM- to make it widespread. If the series appears to be more to Audi's liking they may do it. So far, in GA it's just customer R8's.

The Autosport article sounds like Audi is by now pretty much pushing for US-DTM as well, and USCR is their go-to partner for that. So they have A) a good relationship with the Daytona bunch and B) already a potentially very high profile racing program in the US which negates the need for a P1 program or support for a very uncertain breakaway series.

[TF110]

My point is their hands aren't tied to anyone. DTM isn't endurance racing. If they feel another series is offering them a chance to use their R18 or their current LMP1, what's to stop them? There's no agreement that we know of with Audi that they restrict their participation in competing series to USCR.

[Speed-King]

If they feel another series is offering them a chance to use their R18 or their current LMP1, what's to stop them?

Budgets for one. Audi Sport NA has been more than stingy as of late, preferring Superbowl commericals and PGA golf tournaments over racing programs. Them green lighting even ONE racing project would be a pleasant surprise.

DTM isn't endurance racing. There's no agreement that we know of with Audi that they restrict their participation in competing series to USCR.

While there is probably no formal agreement, it'd still not be very smart of them to P.O. someone they are at the same time trying to do business with.

Also, I don't think it makes much of a difference for most of the casual fans if it is endurance racing or (long-ish) sprints. Also, endurance racing is nothing without the big classic tracks, and NASCAR controls all of these to some degree or another.

[gregtummer]

We can make our own Enduros

24 Hours of Road America
12 Hours of Burke Lake Front Airport
6 Hours of Mosport

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

We can make our own Enduros

24 Hours of Road America
12 Hours of Burke Lake Front Airport
6 Hours of Mosport

No history, no Le Mans affiliation, and IIRC Road America has some noise limitations that prevent them from hosting true night races.

[gregtummer]

It wasn't supposed to be taken literally. Just brainstorming ideas.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Budgets for one. Audi Sport NA has been more than stingy as of late, preferring Superbowl commericals and PGA golf tournaments over racing programs. Them green lighting even ONE racing project would be a pleasant surprise.



While there is probably no formal agreement, it'd still not be very smart of them to P.O. someone they are at the same time trying to do business with.

Also, I don't think it makes much of a difference for most of the casual fans if it is endurance racing or (long-ish) sprints. Also, endurance racing is nothing without the big classic tracks, and NASCAR controls all of these to some degree or another.

No one knows what will be. Your opinion is as good as mine. So neither of us is right or wrong. We can only wait to see what happens. I don't believe Audi would worry about GA's competition ruining their collaboration. There can't be a monopoly.

[ger80]

Lets have a breakaway series thread
Might be a useful rumor

[ger80]

just wondering if that series is the reason for LMP1 Deltawing

[KA]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

United for... a couple of days.

Because breakaway series have strengthened American racing just so much over the last decade or so, haven't they....?

[ger80]

Now tell me that merger helped Indycars at all ...

[Fogelhund]

Chris Dyson ‏@ChrisDyson16
Just to be clear, I have no idea what this "breakaway series" is. 1st I heard of it was rumor yesterday morning. I am Not involved.

[Rodger Davies]

would be a bit daft for Audi anyway, there's already no Daytona but this new series wouldn't even have headline events like Sebring and PLM to keep interest.

If there were plans afoot though, which I highly doubt are anything more than a pipe dream, I would assume that GT3 would have to play some part in them.

US-DTM worries me, but I fear this is what will be pushed - it doesn't personally interest me, but it would likely directly impact on sportscar entries/coverage.

The name USCR sounds a bit ridiculous, in my opinion, but at least it's not NASCAR Sportscar Series and I couldn't give a hoot about the logo so long as it's not written in NASCAR font. Presumably though, it will end up by next year being the 'Rolex United Sportscar Racing Championship presented by Tequila Patron' or similar.

About the classes, PC seems moot to me so I hope there are already plans to phase it out, and it surprised me that they were willing to name the GT classes after venues, but 'Daytona' class will be the slower one!

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

About the classes, PC seems moot to me so I hope there are already plans to phase it out, and it surprised me that they were willing to name the GT classes after venues, but 'Daytona' class will be the slower one!

I really do not see the 'PC class' going away. It could very well morph, but the basic tenet will remain.






L.P.

[NaBUru38]

Can anyone move the messages about the North American touring car championship into this thread?

[Dodge_Swinger]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Elkins has said time and again that DP will be sped up to help balance with P2. He has said just that, a lot. DP will be sped up, primarily through an increase in downforce, they will likely need better breaks, but the performance baseline will be LMP2 speeds. Will P2-derived cars move away from strict ACO regulations? Perhaps. But the baseline of performance will be P2. This has been unequivocally stated by Elkins and Richard Buck.

Chris

Well, which is it? I've read that DP performance will be increased. Now Atherton is saying the opposite, that LMP2 performance will be reduced and that the required changes to LMP2 will be such that the car can easily be restored to ACO specs.

It still chaps my rear that all of this technical accommodation effort is due to a formula (DP) that currently can't be raced any where else. You can say whatever about THE FUTURE of the class, but right now all of this is to accommodate a class that owes its "success" to subsidy money.

I'm also concerned about NASCAR/USCR bringing DTM to the US because it will dilute the emphasis on endurance racing. Someone posted earlier that the casual fan can't tell the difference between endurance and longer sprint races. My guess is that if US DTM hapens, it will get more resources from NASCAR than the USCR gets because DTM is a better fit with the desires of the NASCAR fan demographic. (Shorter races, no driver changes, "rubbin' is racin'", strict BoP, etc.) I've heard more than one journalist refer to DTM as "NASCAR with a German accent". Yes, DTM is more high tech, but it's far closer to NASCAR than endurance racing.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Dodge_Swinger

Well, which is it? I've read that DP performance will be increased. Now Atherton is saying the opposite, that LMP2 performance will be reduced and that the required changes to LMP2 will be such that the car can easily be restored to ACO specs.

It still chaps my rear that all of this technical accommodation effort is due to a formula (DP) that currently can't be raced any where else. You can say whatever about THE FUTURE of the class, but right now all of this is to accommodate a class that owes its "success" to subsidy money.

I'm also concerned about NASCAR/USCR bringing DTM to the US because it will dilute the emphasis on endurance racing. Someone posted earlier that the casual fan can't tell the difference between endurance and longer sprint races. My guess is that if US DTM hapens, it will get more resources from NASCAR than the USCR gets because DTM is a better fit with the desires of the NASCAR fan demographic. (Shorter races, no driver changes, "rubbin' is racin'", strict BoP, etc.) I've heard more than one journalist refer to DTM as "NASCAR with a German accent". Yes, DTM is more high tech, but it's far closer to NASCAR than endurance racing.

If they leave DP performance where it is, what will they do when GTLM is as fast? They'll end up with a log jam behind the dog-slow DPs and subsequently have to slow down the slower classes as well. The logical solution is to speed up DPs to LMP2 level. What am I missing?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

What am I missing?

Obstinance!









L.P.

[DeathOrGlory]

I think I've heard Scott Atherton in the USCR unveil that he defers to Scott Elkins and Richard Buck for the technical stuff.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Dodge_Swinger

Well, which is it? I've read that DP performance will be increased. Now Atherton is saying the opposite, that LMP2 performance will be reduced and that the required changes to LMP2 will be such that the car can easily be restored to ACO specs.

It still chaps my rear that all of this technical accommodation effort is due to a formula (DP) that currently can't be raced any where else. You can say whatever about THE FUTURE of the class, but right now all of this is to accommodate a class that owes its "success" to subsidy money.

I'm also concerned about NASCAR/USCR bringing DTM to the US because it will dilute the emphasis on endurance racing. Someone posted earlier that the casual fan can't tell the difference between endurance and longer sprint races. My guess is that if US DTM hapens, it will get more resources from NASCAR than the USCR gets because DTM is a better fit with the desires of the NASCAR fan demographic. (Shorter races, no driver changes, "rubbin' is racin'", strict BoP, etc.) I've heard more than one journalist refer to DTM as "NASCAR with a German accent". Yes, DTM is more high tech, but it's far closer to NASCAR than endurance racing.

Atherton defers to his technical team on those matters. He indicated it is possible that P2 cars may have to go away from ACO regs to compete in P in 2014 and 2015, but not that they will be slowed down. What constitutes moving away from ACO regulations is also open for interpretation. The ACO would badger IMSA over things like rear wing chord width, fuel capacity, air restrictors and such - particularly in the later years of the ALMS. It could be things as simple as those, or it could be the results of tighter scrutiny of aspects in the P2 power train, perhaps a move to DP-spec or IMSA-approved power trains like in the DP category, perhaps steal brakes, a higher minimum weight, a lower displacement limit than currently seen in LMP2... Not saying that I know what the changes will be, or that my examples are even possibly being considered by IMSA, but per Elkins and Buck - the men leading the technical side of the rules - the cars will use P2 lap times as the bar to which P2 and DP cars will be balanced for the P class in IMSA USR for 2014 and 2015. It's just the way it has to be, as Mike said, as Buck and Elkins have conceded, it is a fait accompli because of the performance bracket PC and GTLM fit in, and the potential for increased pace as GTLM comtinues on its development curve.

Chris

[Maelochs]

Judging from some deliberately and artfully non-specific comments made by the Scot and Scott Show at Sebring Winter Test, P2 will have to adopt some of the stringent anti-competitive measures used by DPs—limited and prescribed power and torque curves, for instance, and a ban on any modifications/adjustments except maybe one of three prescribed camber settings, gurney heights, and shock valvings.

This seems to be something unavoidable—though of course no one came right out and said it. Scott A. Strongly hinted that for the next two years, that part of the Grand Am rule book—let’s call it Competition Castration—will be forced on the P2 teams.

A specified choice of wing settings seems reasonable too, with maybe less overall downforce so the cars aren’t so blindingly quick through the corners (compared to DPs.) Or, slightly smaller restrictors so the P2s can rule the corners and the DPs own the straights. I heard a few times at Daytona and Sebring that DPs and P2s make their speed in different ways, and it seems that is a characteristic which might be strengthened.

As was pointed out, at There Veal Scott A. most definitely said P2s would be changed but not so much that they couldn’t change back. Steel brake rotors? Restrictors? Lower wing angles? Smaller dive planes?

I also expect that P2s will be slowed a little if needed because it will be so very hard for DPs to make up all that time, unless the P2s have to run slower tires—and I think Sebring proves that Contuinetakl can make a decvent tire which has some grip and also lasts pretty well—see the comments of PC teams (who of course absolutely have to praise Conti or risk a $25K fine .)