|
| Site Partners: | SpotterGuides | Veloce Books |
| Related Sites: | Your Link Here |
|
|
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
|
19 Oct 2014, 11:23 (Ref:3466423)
|
#2851 | |
|
Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 46
 |
Let’s compare the Nissan ZEOD to F1 cars.
Top Gear Test Track 2.82 km (standing start) 2014 Nissan ZEOD (electric motors) – 1:13.6 2014 Nissan ZEOD (engine + electric motors) – 1:05.3 Lap Average Speed = (2.82 x 0.6214) miles / (65.3 s / 3600) hour = 96.6 mph 2011 Lotus T125 – 1:03.8 Lap Average Speed = (2.82 x 0.6214) miles / (63.8 s / 3600) hour = 98.9 mph 2004 F1 Renault R24 – 59.0 Lap Average Speed = (2.82 x 0.6214) miles / (59 s / 3600) hour = 106.9 mph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_test_track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Ekk9ru7YA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E0PFLbGXyA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkwbb0mPe58 The ZEOD did not run in the combined “engine+electric” mode at Le Mans. It was either engine or electric. That is one reason why it was slow. The other reason is the lack of downforce. There are two 110kW electric motors delivering about 300bhp here, and, all told, they only need to shove along 770kg... 150kg of that is a battery pack which slots up from underneath the car. Changing it takes about half an hour. But then the Zeod isn't purely electric. It also has a 400bhp turbocharged inline-3 engine. So we're talking about 700bhp in total. Hence why Nissan was happy to bring it down to Dunsfold and let Top Gear have a go. The guys are desperate to find out how fast it'll go round our track. Turning the Zeod dial to 10 gives me combined hybrid power, about 1,000bhp per ton. But it's how it arrives that takes your breath away. Power to Weight Ratio Car weight includes driver and fuel. Assume combined weight of driver and fuel to be 80 kg during a low-fuel qualifying lap. 1 metric ton = 1000 kg Nissan ZEOD (engine + electric motors) Power to Weight Ratio = (400 + 300) HP / (770 kg / 1000) ton = 909 HP/ton Lotus T125 Power to Weight Ratio = 640 HP / (670 kg / 1000) ton = 955 HP/ton 2004 F1 Renault R24 Power to Weight Ratio = 850 HP / (610 kg / 1000) ton = 1393 HP/ton Torque to Weight Ratio 2004 F1 Renault R24 Torque to Weight Ratio = 260 lb-ft / (610 kg / 1000) ton = 426 lb-ft/ton Lotus T125 Torque to Weight Ratio = 332 lb-ft / (670 kg / 1000) ton = 496 lb-ft/ton Nissan ZEOD (engine + electric motors) Torque to Weight Ratio = (280 + 160) lb-ft / (770 kg / 1000) ton = 571 lb-ft/ton http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/top...eod-2014-10-14 http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/u...-rc-powerplant http://www.mclarenelectronics.com/Pr...roduct/E-Motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7obcMI_PTS4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKs6ramZ-Bs http://www.lotuscars.com/gb/racing/type-125 http://www.sportauto.de/motorsport/e...n-4298732.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VJ_bKYrfWg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND7WeUX7PI8 http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/878/renault-r24 http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres...urs_BMW_F1.pdf http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/engine.html http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/01/2...-era-f1s-best/     
Last edited by MkEagle; 19 Oct 2014 at 11:31. |
|
|
|
|
20 Oct 2014, 10:14 (Ref:3466718)
|
#2852 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,229
|
The whole point of the DW is to get a given amount of work (first to the finish line) done for less energy.
Unless we know the fuel allocation of each car for its Top Gear lap, we really don't have anything to compare. PLM is really the best data to date. We have how far it went. We have how many pit stops it made. We have its fuel cell capacity. We don't know how much fuel was added at each stop or how close they ran it to empty in each stint. With the incessant full course cautions, it may not have had an entirely green flag stint at any point in the race, so without a full stint at racing speed and knowledge of the fuel consumption for that stint, we still have holes in our data, but we have the beginnings of the info needed to make useful comparisons. Why not dissect that? |
||
|
|
__________________
Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens.
|
|
20 Oct 2014, 11:03 (Ref:3466732)
|
#2853 | |
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
 |
Why not do in-depth comparisons of the DWing and a space shuttle and nuclear submarine?
|
|
|
|
|
|
20 Oct 2014, 14:58 (Ref:3466790)
|
#2854 | ||
|
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 365
|
Quote:
|
||
|
|
|
|
26 Oct 2014, 10:06 (Ref:3468639)
|
#2855 | |
|
Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 46
|
Let’s compare the DeltaWing Coupe to SCCA P1, CART, ChampCar and F1 cars.
Laguna Seca 2.238 miles 2009 SCCA DSR Stohr WF1-Suzuki GSXR1000 – 1:21.704 Lap Average Speed = 2.238 miles / (81.704 s / 3600) hour = 98.6 mph 2014 DeltaWing Coupe – 1:20.327 Lap Average Speed = 2.238 miles / (80.327 s / 3600) hour = 100.3 mph 1999 CART Reynard 99I-Cosworth XD - 1:07.181 Lap Average Speed = 2.238 miles / (67.181 s / 3600) hour = 120 mph 2007 ChampCar Panoz DP01-Cosworth XFE - 1:05.880 Lap Average Speed = 2.238 miles / (65.88 s / 3600) hour = 122.3 mph F1 Ferrari F2003GA - 1:05.786 Lap Average Speed = 2.238 miles / (65.786 s / 3600) hour = 122.5 mph http://www.sfrscca.org/content/view/4448/93/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQaS9BFGVdM http://www.deltawingracing.com/news/...a-raceway.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OofUHkEYFP4 http://www.champcar.com/news99/sc_n0225_1_99.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4v5HhWnl5M http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/s...s=5&id=2796817 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3taNy7VCtO0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUkneHrjFYs http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/23/f...t-laguna-seca/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6e6R90REF8 Power to Weight Ratio Car weight includes driver and fuel. Assume combined weight of driver and fuel to be 80 kg during a low-fuel qualifying lap. 1 metric ton = 1000 kg SCCA DSR Stohr WF1-Suzuki GSXR1000 Power to Weight Ratio = 200 HP / (440 kg / 1000) ton = 455 HP/ton 2014 DeltaWing Coupe Power to Weight Ratio = 350 HP / (595 kg / 1000) ton = 588 HP/ton 2007 Panoz DP01-Cosworth XFE (push-to-pass overboost) Power to Weight Ratio = 800 HP / (790 kg / 1000) ton = 1013 HP/ton 1999 Reynard 99I-Cosworth XD Power to Weight Ratio = 835 HP / (783 kg / 1000) ton = 1066 HP/ton 2003 F1 Ferrari F2003GA Power to Weight Ratio = 900 HP / (605 kg / 1000) ton = 1488 HP/ton Torque to Weight Ratio SCCA DSR Stohr WF1-Suzuki GSXR1000 Torque to Weight Ratio = 100 lb-ft / (440 kg / 1000) ton = 227 lb-ft/ton 1999 Reynard 99I-Cosworth XD Torque to Weight Ratio = 320 lb-ft / (783 kg / 1000) ton = 409 lb-ft/ton 2003 F1 Ferrari F2003GA Torque to Weight Ratio = 260 lb-ft / (605 kg / 1000) ton = 430 lb-ft/ton 2014 DeltaWing Coupe Torque to Weight Ratio = 270 lb-ft / (595 kg / 1000) ton = 454 lb-ft/ton 2007 Panoz DP01-Cosworth XFE (push-to-pass overboost) Torque to Weight Ratio = 390 lb-ft / (790 kg / 1000) ton = 494 lb-ft/ton http://www.dauntlessracing.com/ http://www.rilltechracing.com/ http://www.deltawingracing.com/tech-specs/ http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi...0%2314-125.pdf http://www.lolachampcar.com/Cosworth%20XD.htm http://www.autoracing1.com/htmfiles/...07Ford_100.htm http://www.cosworth.com/products/rac...nes/xf-series/ http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie...t_is_no44.html http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars...rrari-f2003-ga http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres...urs_BMW_F1.pdf http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/engine.html      
|
|
|
|
|
|
26 Oct 2014, 12:04 (Ref:3468673)
|
#2856 | |||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,269
|
Quote:
Not to mention beating a horse that's been dead for so long, there's nothing but bones left. |
|||
|
|
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
|
|
26 Oct 2014, 15:00 (Ref:3468711)
|
#2857 | |
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
I have yet to see a comparison test between a DWing and a horse. Don't keep us waiting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
26 Oct 2014, 15:27 (Ref:3468725)
|
#2858 | |||
 Race Official20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,189
|
Quote:
Nice pics, .
|
|||
|
|
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman.
|
|
26 Oct 2014, 19:28 (Ref:3468795)
|
#2859 | |||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,229
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
__________________
Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens.
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 01:28 (Ref:3469582)
|
#2860 | ||
|
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Quote:
However, there's no real need for conducting further testing today, thanks to our late friend here James Watt, who did quite a bit of work on steam engines back in the 1700's, needed a way to measure their output. Watt used a common reference, the horse, as the basis for his calculations (like the inch was based on the width of a man's thumb). The exact process he followed to find out what a horse could do is open to speculation, everyone seems to have their own favorite story, but the end result was: 1 horsepower = 550 foot-pounds per second, which means, in Watt's calculations, a horse can lift 550 pounds one foot in one second. Watts used draft horse for his calculations, however seeing as the weight of such animal can vary from 700 to 1000 kilograms AND there are even heavier horse species around while only one Deltawing exists, we must search records for the heaviest horse ever recorded to make it fair for the Deltawing: The largest horse in recorded history was probably a Shire horse named Mammoth, who was born in 1848. He stood 21.2 1⁄2 hands (86.5 inches, 220 cm) high and his peak weight was estimated at 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb). So what we can gather is Horse Mammoth 1,500kg (without rider) / 1 hp Deltawing coupe 490kg (without fuel or rider) / 350 hp Meaning that as the Deltawing's engine is able to produce 350 horsepower, it is 350 times as efficient as the horse, while also being about one metric ton (1 metric ton = 1000 kg) lighter without fuel or rider. This makes Deltawing the superior way of road transport in every way imaginable. This fact cannot be disputed. http://thekneeslider.com/what-is-horsepower-and-torque/ http://www.deltawingracing.com/tech-specs/ http://toplowridersites.com/deltawin...play-top-view/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse http://jamesarrabito.hubpages.com/hub/BelgianDraftHorse  
Last edited by Deleted; 29 Oct 2014 at 01:35. |
||
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 05:24 (Ref:3469607)
|
#2861 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,229
|
 
|
||
|
|
__________________
Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens.
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 06:01 (Ref:3469610)
|
#2862 | |||
|
Racer
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 337
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 13:44 (Ref:3469695)
|
#2863 | |
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
Perfect. Everything I could have wanted. Glad I had already set my coffee down and swallowed before reading.
|
|
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 15:03 (Ref:3469722)
|
#2864 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,867
|
Wait this is completely irrelevant. Born in the 1800s, isn't Budweiser Chevrolet Shire Horse Mammoth dead? We should therefore be concluding that the dw does in fact, as alluded to in post #2856, beat dead horses.
This then raises the question that since the dw does in fact beat upon the bones of dead horses, how does the dw compare to different kinds of glue? |
||
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 15:29 (Ref:3469731)
|
#2865 | |
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
The DWing may not inspire many race fans, but it sure has awakened some comic geniuses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 15:43 (Ref:3469738)
|
#2866 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,311
|
But Chiana failed to consider energy efficiency - that 1500kg horse is going to consume about 500 MCal (assuming 20% DE) to produce 12hp*hours of work, for 1.54% overall efficiency.
Now with the Deltawing getting 9.2 MPG and traveling at an average of 100.3MPH for 12 hours it will require 131 gallons (US) of gasoline with an average energy content of 1.5*10^8J/gallon. Using an assumed average weight per lap of 5835N for Deltawing, gives it a 57.52% overall efficiency rating |
||
|
|
__________________
It's time to switch to Whiskey, we've been drinking Beer all night - Corb Lund
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 15:59 (Ref:3469743)
|
#2867 | |
|
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Mammoth may be dead, but since nobody can proof that Deltawing is alive today either (and certainly not breathing with it's artificial lungs all the time), it doesn't really matter
 Anyway, the Deltawing is intended to prove performance while being lightweight, right? Maybe then we should look at the record for lightest born horse, like little Einstein here? Weighing just 2,7 kilograms upon birth, it would make it 487,3 kg lighter than the (non fueled / non driver equipped) Deltawing coupe. But still, since no horse can surpass the amount of 1 horsepower (because of science), the Deltawing would still have superior performance on track despite the unfair weight difference. http://www.deltawingracing.com/tech-specs/ http://www.theguardian.com/world/blo...world-einstein 
|
|
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 16:49 (Ref:3469758)
|
#2868 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,320
|
Stop horsing around and foaling up the thread you guys and get back to the mane point please.
|
||
|
|
__________________
If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 16:57 (Ref:3469761)
|
#2869 | |
|
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Mane point?
But yes, let's get back comparing the Deltawing to 2002 Arrows-Cosworth A23, 1997 Lola T96/50 Zytek-Judd and 1988 WSBK champion manufacturer Honda's bike. |
|
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 17:15 (Ref:3469767)
|
#2870 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
Quote:
|
||
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 19:03 (Ref:3469794)
|
#2871 | |||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,320
|
Quote:
I had a whole stable full of cheesy word play that was jockeying for position. 
|
|||
|
|
__________________
If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 19:32 (Ref:3469800)
|
#2872 | |||
|
Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,189
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman.
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 21:23 (Ref:3469825)
|
#2873 | |
|
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
|
Joking aside, we probably are learning more in general with this random trivia about horses, than we would with Deltawing against CART/whatever out of context comparison tables...
|
|
|
|
|
|
29 Oct 2014, 21:36 (Ref:3469829)
|
#2874 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,229
|
It's been a very enjoyable hijack!
|
||
|
|
__________________
Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens.
|
|
1 Nov 2014, 13:41 (Ref:3470506)
|
#2875 | ||
|
Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,620
|
All right, lets try and make this thread about the Deltawing again. We had a fun detour, but back to business please.
|
||
|
|
|
 |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Wide Front Wing / Narrow rear wing | browney | Formula One | 30 | 21 Nov 2011 12:13 |
| Delta S4's that were in Rallycross | M.Lowe | Rallying & Rallycross | 23 | 30 Aug 2007 11:47 |
| Delta wing , inverted delta wing | effuno | Racing Technology | 3 | 8 Apr 2007 13:45 |
Linear Mode
