Pirelli World Challenge Rounds 3 & 4: St. Petersburg

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The problem is the day is shared with IndyCar. When you're a support race you're given X amount of minutes to run your session, period. They don't adjust the schedule for you.

Thinning out the grid on weekends that PWC acts as Indycars support bill is a good idea then (maybe only at street races as road courses usually provide more run off and - hopefully - more recovery equipment).

GT(A) could run separately and the Porsche can join GTS, making both groups much more balanced.

Won't work for Long Beach is that one is only for GT(A) + Cup but is worth a consideration for Detroit and Mid-Ohio as well.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The problem is the day is shared with IndyCar. When you're a support race you're given X amount of minutes to run your session, period. They don't adjust the schedule for you.

-mike

Hi Mike, as a driver who hangs out in the paddock area do you know if there is chatter at least between drivers/teams if not officials about making changes such as rolling starts and/or moving the Porsche Cup cars to the GTS races?

You know on these discussion forums there is a lot of disagreements between us fans on various topics (especially TUSC/IMSA related content) but one thing I think we universally can agree on is that we hate full course yellows. Any idea to help reduce wrecks and car damage which in turn reduces FCY's and unneeded financial expenses should be considered most certainly.

[Matt]

There is a lot of negative talk regarding the standing starts from the drivers.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Yes, they need to be differentiated from series which actually race for more than half of the posted race duration.

Hehe, that's what it looks like from the outside. PWC has been able to get away with being stubborn on standing starts because it wasn't being put into such sharp focus before.

Here's to seeing the back of standing starts before the season is over.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

Hi Mike, as a driver who hangs out in the paddock area do you know if there is chatter at least between drivers/teams if not officials about making changes such as rolling starts and/or moving the Porsche Cup cars to the GTS races?

You know on these discussion forums there is a lot of disagreements between us fans on various topics (especially TUSC/IMSA related content) but one thing I think we universally can agree on is that we hate full course yellows. Any idea to help reduce wrecks and car damage which in turn reduces FCY's and unneeded financial expenses should be considered most certainly.

There was a lot of dissent in the paddock after Saturdays race. When I was at the hotel at around 8PM Saturday night I received a text from our team manager saying the series had called for a mandatory drivers meeting at 8:30AM Sunday. We all expected it was to either take a vote on standing start or not for Sundays race (which was done a few times in 2014!) or that it was already decided and we'd be doing a rolling start.

Instead, Brian started the meeting by telling everyone in attendance (drivers, team managers, and owners) that nothing was going to be discussed. For the first few minutes I actually thought that meant we were doing rolling starts.. then he proceeded to explain to us how the cars being crashed at the start were all due to driver mistakes and that we must do a better job.

Rob Dyson then brought up a few points showing that it had become such a regular occurrence in the series that maybe it wasn't necessarily the drivers fault. He was shot down and the meeting ended.

Everyone went back to their trailers in pretty much shock and amazement and not just the things we were told in the meeting, but also in the manner and attitude of the series towards it's entries. Even as I sit here and type this, I'm dumbfounded by their change in attitude since last year -- it was one of the things I would speak most highly about in terms of PWC (while not perfect, was a nice change of pace from IMSA's style).

We spoke about it with a few other team owners under our tent before the race started and as far as I could tell everyone was of the same opinion (except maybe Cadillac, but it's basically the Cadillac World Challenge and we all live with that! ).

On Friday afternoon I had spent a lot of time talking with the Scuderia Corsa guys about other events and testing for them. I was 100% on Long Beach, 25% on Barber, 65% on Mosport, 25% on Detroit, 50% on Road America (found a way to do both PWC at Road America and Tudor WGI on the same weekend), and 100% for Sonoma and Laguna Seca assuming my car doesn't get written off before then.

After that drivers/owners meeting Sunday morning I told the team to count me out of anything besides Long Beach, Sonoma and Laguna -- basically our "local" races. I'm only doing Long Beach because I told the team from the start I was doing that race.

I still hold out hope the series will eventually grow into something worthy of the teams and drivers now participating (not including yours truly, i'm just a scrub ) but it looks like it's going to be a bumpy road. I'll probably return once they get it ironed out, or I'll race somewhere else.

And don't even get me started on the GTA class, officiating, or non-GT3-homologated BoP.

-mike

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Hehe, that's what it looks like from the outside. PWC has been able to get away with being stubborn on standing starts because it wasn't being put into such sharp focus before.

Here's to seeing the back of standing starts before the season is over.

IMO, the standing starts worked in previous years for a few reasons:

* Smaller field.
* Almost all cars had a developed launch control or NO traction control at all which is much easier to launch, albeit slower (you just do a smokey burnout, but chance of stalling is much lower).
* The competition was much lower, which reduced the importance and aggression on the start.
* Cars were cheaper to repair, replace, and maintain. Standing starts for the season (without even practicing them, only the races) adds $35-50k year in maintenance costs to my 458 GT3.


Personally, I don't have a fundamental problem with standing starts. But if you take into consideration all the variables to put on a good PWC race in 2015 (especially at a street circuit!) you simply need more green flag running and to keep your competitors happy. If 2/3rd's to 3/4th's of the entries are fielded by owner/driver combinations, you're playing russian roulette on every start. The racing itself in perfect conditions is risky enough, IMO.

Of course, if I was being paid to be there, was driving someone elses car and weren't liable for the damages, I'd be ok with it. Even though I don't think it's healthy for the series overall in it's current state.

But what do I know... I'm just a programmer and part time wanna-be race car driver. :-)

-mike

[Bob Baldwin]

POOOOOOH ! on BRIAN for having such a DICTATORIAL ATTITUDE .

Can't think of a better way than to give a one finger salute and WALK OUT

YOU CAN't keep 100% of your competitors HAPPY ALL the time But that was STUPID

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

POOOOOOH ! on BRIAN for having such a DICTATORIAL ATTITUDE .

Can't think of a better way than to give a one finger salute and WALK OUT

YOU CAN't keep 100% of your competitors HAPPY ALL the time But that was STUPID

I'm not sure it's actually Brian deciding what to get across to the competitors or if he's just implementing what he's told. But, it was clearly his meeting.

-mike

[rich07]

Many thanks for your thoughts Mike it's great to hear from a competitor within the series about how a series decisions affect them as a competitor. No butt kissing here I'm genuinely thankful that you post on here your thoughts and opinions on what's going on because it's a much different viewpoint from us the fans.

[Akrapovic]

Whilst we all dislike FCYs, I thought a larger issue was the amount of time it took to clear it. 25 minutes into it, we were still watching an Audi R8 being pulled onto a truck, which had crashed 20 minutes earlier. I can't help but feel that most series would've cleared this earlier.

The Audi didn't get any attention until after the main accident had been cleared. Presumably this is because there wasn't another flat bed truck to put it on. So was this a lack of resources? Because half the race to clear it seems to be another part of the same problem.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Everyone went back to their trailers in pretty much shock and amazement and not just the things we were told in the meeting, but also in the manner and attitude of the series towards it's entries.

Wow, okay...

They say money corrupts; it seems success does as well. It's a disease that I thought at one point germane to IMSA, but WEC and PWC are catching it as well. Where have the happy sanctuaries gone? Such a pity..

[DeezPutz]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

You just exactly confirmed my point, there was a lot of avoidable contact which - in my book - is poor driving.

But I guess that has become the accepted norm nowadays, not only from fans but also stewards and race directors. Sad development.

Cry me a river.

[DeezPutz]

How's does everyone's crow taste? Has IMSA closed its doors out of fear yet?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

For the first few minutes I actually thought that meant we were doing rolling starts.. then he proceeded to explain to us how the cars being crashed at the start were all due to driver mistakes and that we must do a better job.

Rob Dyson then brought up a few points showing that it had become such a regular occurrence in the series that maybe it wasn't necessarily the drivers fault. He was shot down and the meeting ended.

"We are right and you are wrong". World class customer service for a series that relies on customers and nothing else.

I heard that the little birds were whispering this series was supposed to be the land of unicorns and eternal happiness? Guess the birds were as drunk as they are when they visit the kingdom of Daytona Beach.

[jasonjessica09]

Regardless it seems like the Brian Till era of PWC is NOT off to a good start. Stop talking Brian and start listening. You have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. You act like its the reverse. Being on TV that long he has forgot about listening.

[Coach Ep]

Thanks for bringing out the dirty laundry Mike!

Maybe it was the Indycar stress that got to PWC staff, maybe the excellent organizer-clients relationship management we saw last year went away with Geoff Carter, who knows. If the latter, we should see more and more improvements with IMSA and - in the light of your "my way or the highway!" comments - the prospect of a possibly GT3 sprint series under the IMSA umbrella suddenly makes a whole lot more sense!

[ttdriver2009]

And don't even get me started on the GTA class, officiating, or non-GT3-homologated BoP.

What's wrong with the non-GT3-homologated BoP? I seen the one Acura won but then seemed to struggle for the second race.

[Brian Till]

All, some quick background on my role with PWC. I am a Drivers Steward...not a Race Director. Therefore I have no power to make policy decisions or procedural changes. What my thoughts are on such policies/procedures are discussed with and known by the series.
That said, the meeting on Sunday morning was a Drivers' Meeting, therefore I led it. There was to be no discussion of the pros/cons of the standing start policy as that is not something I can affect. I was there to discuss what the group, as drivers, could do to try and make a difficult situation better.
I started the meeting by saying that Saturday's start was like an airplane crash...meaning that one small mistake led to a cascade of other small mistakes that spiraled out of control. I stand by that comment. Drivers will ALWAYS make small mistakes...they're human. There has never been a perfect race lap and there never will be for that very reason. Are the risks magnified on a standing start? Most certainly they are. The point of Sunday morning's meeting was to get everyone to use a little bit of extra caution, hear a couple of other ideas on what to think about and to understand that ultimately it is up to the drivers to try and mitigate the small mistakes that would be made and SURVIVE the start.
And everyone on Sunday did just that. Everyone lined up straighter than the day before, everyone found their way through to turn one even with a slow get away back in the pack. The drivers did exactly what they needed to do and it worked. That is in no way a pat on the back to us for having a meeting. That is a pat on the back to everyone that ultimately is responsible for the success of the standing start process...the drivers.
If you know me personally, you know that there is no "dictatorial" attitude. My job is to use my experience as it pertains to performance inside the cockpit. That is what I am trying to do. This is not "my era". I don't know where that even comes from. There will be those that disagree with penalty calls that I make during on-track sessions and I get that. Just like the drivers, I will not always be right. And if I make a mistake, I will own it, and I have done just that. But when after video and data have been reviewed, I make a decision and I stand by it, I stand by it because I believe that I am correct. If that is "dictatorial" then so be it.
And please note, I replied here because the link was passed along to me by someone in the business. Replying to threads is something that I generally shy away from. That is not hiding, it's just that I don't really have a lot of spare time between work and family to get into long discussions. If you see me at a track and I have time, I will gladly take a few moments to chat. I believe I have a reputation for being very approachable. Hopefully this will give all of you here (who are obviously passionate about the sport and the series) a little better understanding.
Cheers,
BT

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by Brian Till

All, some quick background on my role with PWC. I am a Drivers Steward...not a Race Director. Therefore I have no power to make policy decisions or procedural changes. What my thoughts are on such policies/procedures are discussed with and known by the series.
That said, the meeting on Sunday morning was a Drivers' Meeting, therefore I led it. There was to be no discussion of the pros/cons of the standing start policy as that is not something I can affect. I was there to discuss what the group, as drivers, could do to try and make a difficult situation better.
I started the meeting by saying that Saturday's start was like an airplane crash...meaning that one small mistake led to a cascade of other small mistakes that spiraled out of control. I stand by that comment. Drivers will ALWAYS make small mistakes...they're human. There has never been a perfect race lap and there never will be for that very reason. Are the risks magnified on a standing start? Most certainly they are. The point of Sunday morning's meeting was to get everyone to use a little bit of extra caution, hear a couple of other ideas on what to think about and to understand that ultimately it is up to the drivers to try and mitigate the small mistakes that would be made and SURVIVE the start.
And everyone on Sunday did just that. Everyone lined up straighter than the day before, everyone found their way through to turn one even with a slow get away back in the pack. The drivers did exactly what they needed to do and it worked. That is in no way a pat on the back to us for having a meeting. That is a pat on the back to everyone that ultimately is responsible for the success of the standing start process...the drivers.
If you know me personally, you know that there is no "dictatorial" attitude. My job is to use my experience as it pertains to performance inside the cockpit. That is what I am trying to do. This is not "my era". I don't know where that even comes from. There will be those that disagree with penalty calls that I make during on-track sessions and I get that. Just like the drivers, I will not always be right. And if I make a mistake, I will own it, and I have done just that. But when after video and data have been reviewed, I make a decision and I stand by it, I stand by it because I believe that I am correct. If that is "dictatorial" then so be it.
And please note, I replied here because the link was passed along to me by someone in the business. Replying to threads is something that I generally shy away from. That is not hiding, it's just that I don't really have a lot of spare time between work and family to get into long discussions. If you see me at a track and I have time, I will gladly take a few moments to chat. I believe I have a reputation for being very approachable. Hopefully this will give all of you here (who are obviously passionate about the sport and the series) a little better understanding.
Cheers,
BT

Well thanks for contributing Mr. Till. I take back my comments from earlier. It looks like the buck does not stop with you which is what I certainly thought. Hopefully you hate full course yellows as much as we do too. Look how much praise the Sebring race got this year due to that one fact that the race was clean.

[Deleted]

Great to hear from you Brian personally. I'm not gonna stick my foot into this seeing as I'm not really into the series anyway, but just one thing...

Originally Posted by Brian Till

All, some quick background on my role with PWC. I am a Drivers Steward...not a Race Director. Therefore I have no power to make policy decisions or procedural changes. What my thoughts are on such policies/procedures are discussed with and known by the series.

Originally Posted by World-Challenge.com, February 3rd 2015

"I am truly honored to have the opportunity to work with the Pirelli World Challenge Championships and WC Vision this year in the role of Race Director/Chief Drivers Steward,” Till said. “Without a doubt, this series provides some of the best sprint format, production-based sports car racing in the world. The level of professionalism that the teams and drivers display every weekend is fantastic and that certainly has me looking forward to being a part of the program."

Brian Till Named Pirelli World Challenge Race Director/Chief Driver Steward

...?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Brian Till

All, some quick background on my role with PWC. I am a Drivers Steward...not a Race Director. Therefore I have no power to make policy decisions or procedural changes. What my thoughts are on such policies/procedures are discussed with and known by the series.

That said, the meeting on Sunday morning was a Drivers' Meeting, therefore I led it. There was to be no discussion of the pros/cons of the standing start policy as that is not something I can affect. I was there to discuss what the group, as drivers, could do to try and make a difficult situation better.

I started the meeting by saying that Saturday's start was like an airplane crash...meaning that one small mistake led to a cascade of other small mistakes that spiraled out of control. I stand by that comment. Drivers will ALWAYS make small mistakes...they're human. There has never been a perfect race lap and there never will be for that very reason. Are the risks magnified on a standing start? Most certainly they are. The point of Sunday morning's meeting was to get everyone to use a little bit of extra caution, hear a couple of other ideas on what to think about and to understand that ultimately it is up to the drivers to try and mitigate the small mistakes that would be made and SURVIVE the start.

And everyone on Sunday did just that. Everyone lined up straighter than the day before, everyone found their way through to turn one even with a slow get away back in the pack. The drivers did exactly what they needed to do and it worked. That is in no way a pat on the back to us for having a meeting. That is a pat on the back to everyone that ultimately is responsible for the success of the standing start process...the drivers.
If you know me personally, you know that there is no "dictatorial" attitude.

My job is to use my experience as it pertains to performance inside the cockpit. That is what I am trying to do. This is not "my era". I don't know where that even comes from. There will be those that disagree with penalty calls that I make during on-track sessions and I get that. Just like the drivers, I will not always be right. And if I make a mistake, I will own it, and I have done just that. But when after video and data have been reviewed, I make a decision and I stand by it, I stand by it because I believe that I am correct. If that is "dictatorial" then so be it.

And please note, I replied here because the link was passed along to me by someone in the business. Replying to threads is something that I generally shy away from. That is not hiding, it's just that I don't really have a lot of spare time between work and family to get into long discussions. If you see me at a track and I have time, I will gladly take a few moments to chat. I believe I have a reputation for being very approachable. Hopefully this will give all of you here (who are obviously passionate about the sport and the series) a little better understanding.

Cheers,
BT

Thx Brian for finding the time to respond to our little but sometimes hotheaded on-the-side-line-discussion, much appreciated!

And yes, we all (well, most of us anyway ) fully understand that where people work, people make mistakes, it's no different in any other place in society. I'm sure you were one of the busiest persons in the paddock in St. Pete with all the stuff that was going on track, too bad the relief about the much cleaner standing start on Sunday was thrown out of the window barely two turns later...

Anyway, all this still leaves the standing starts untouched but I'm hopeful that PWC will respond to all the moaning (and *****ing), not only from fans but - more importantly - also from participants!

Too bad we didn't get the chance to meet at Cota, good luck for the remainder of the season, it's still on course to be a grand cru PWC!

[Akrapovic]

Accidents will happen, but I personally thought the length of time taken to clean up was a bigger issue.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Brian Till

All, some quick background on my role with PWC. I am a Drivers Steward...not a Race Director.

Thanks for taking the time to post Brian -- see you in Long Beach!

-mike

[Matt]

Like I said, just tell those flatbed operators to just yank the cars up and bring them back to the pits, none of this delicate loading crap.

[FLGTFAN]

Originally Posted by Matt

Like I said, just tell those flatbed operators to just yank the cars up and bring them back to the pits, none of this delicate loading crap.

You are completely missing the point. There was no flatbed on the scene for 15+ minutes.