Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Apr 2011, 17:44 (Ref:2863883)   #1176
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
Hi,

I was listening to a youtube video of the new peugeot 908 hdi fap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=446bW0Z2zSk


and it sounds like they are running waste gated turbos not vg.
Surely that would make for a narrower power band?

Best wishes

john
That's the old 908, the 2007-'10 car, which had conventional turbos. The Audi R18 for sure has VTG turbos or turbo (depending on who's sources you trust), and I don't think anyone's sure that the new 908 has VTGs or not--Audi proved that they can work on the R15, though reports of the Pug drivers saying that the R15s out accellerated them out of the corners at Sebring may support the thought that the new 908s might still have conventional turbos, or prove the theory that the open cars can out accellerate the closed cars that I've heard, which is just a theory.

VTG's don't have turbo lag, while normal wastegate turbos can if they're not set up right for a circuit or track conditions. That could be part of the reason for the old 908's wet weather handling issues (stiff springing, bad traction control, more of a peaky power band, and perhaps, turbo lag if in too high a gear).
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2011, 18:18 (Ref:2863899)   #1177
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi Chernaudi,

Thanks for that info.
Back in 2004 when Taurus Sports ran in lmp1 they found torque spikes impossible to map out and they were running wastegated turbos.
VG turbos widen the powerband and as these racing diesels run up to 6000 rpm+ this is especially important with the decreased capacity.
Do you have a link to the new lmp1/2 regulations?
Are you going to lm this June?

Best wishes

john


Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
That's the old 908, the 2007-'10 car, which had conventional turbos. The Audi R18 for sure has VTG turbos or turbo (depending on who's sources you trust), and I don't think anyone's sure that the new 908 has VTGs or not--Audi proved that they can work on the R15, though reports of the Pug drivers saying that the R15s out accellerated them out of the corners at Sebring may support the thought that the new 908s might still have conventional turbos, or prove the theory that the open cars can out accellerate the closed cars that I've heard, which is just a theory.

VTG's don't have turbo lag, while normal wastegate turbos can if they're not set up right for a circuit or track conditions. That could be part of the reason for the old 908's wet weather handling issues (stiff springing, bad traction control, more of a peaky power band, and perhaps, turbo lag if in too high a gear).
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2011, 18:44 (Ref:2863908)   #1178
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
The Audi R10 ran wastegate turbos as well, as Garrett was only just developing VTGs for racing diesels.

Of course, the Taurus diesel used the 5.0 V10 TDI out of the Volkswagen Toureg/Pheaton, and with no factory support from VW.

www.mulsannescorner.com is a good place to start to find the ACO's regs, and IMSA and the ACO's offical sites have PDF files of their sporting and technical regs, too.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2011, 19:08 (Ref:2863917)   #1179
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The main outlines of the 2011 regulations

I found a summary of the technical definitions for the 2011 Le Mans 24 Hours concern 4 precise points:
- LM P1 and LM P2 engines: reduction of power, and cubic capacity reduction in LM P1 (diesel, 3.7-litre twin turbo 8 cylinders maximum instead of 5.5 litres, petrol, normally aspirated 3.4-litre 8 cylinders maximum instead of 6 litres, petrol, 2.0-litre turbo 6 cylinders instead of 4.0 litres), in LM P2 (diesel, 4.0-litre turbo 8 cylinders, petrol, 4.0 litres prepared on the basis of 2010 GT2, petrol, 4.5-litre series production). The minimum weight in LM P1 remains at 900 kgs and is increased from 825 to 900 kgs in LM P2.
- Hybrid systems aimed at reducing fuel consumption (free development in compliance with precise rules).
- Fuel tank capacities (75 litres instead of 90 litres for petrol engines, and 68 litres instead of 81 litres for diesels).
- Wheel dimensions unchanged in relation to the 2009 regulations).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
The Audi R10 ran wastegate turbos as well, as Garrett was only just developing VTGs for racing diesels.

Of course, the Taurus diesel used the 5.0 V10 TDI out of the Volkswagen Toureg/Pheaton, and with no factory support from VW.

www.mulsannescorner.com is a good place to start to find the ACO's regs, and IMSA and the ACO's offical sites have PDF files of their sporting and technical regs, too.
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2011, 19:43 (Ref:2863937)   #1180
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
I found a summary of the technical definitions for the 2011 Le Mans 24 Hours concern 4 precise points:
The document you found, is not very accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
- LM P1 and LM P2 engines: reduction of power, and cubic capacity reduction in LM P1 (diesel, 3.7-litre twin turbo 8 cylinders maximum instead of 5.5 litres, petrol, normally aspirated 3.4-litre 8 cylinders maximum instead of 6 litres, petrol, 2.0-litre turbo 6 cylinders instead of 4.0 litres), in LM P2 (diesel, 4.0-litre turbo 8 cylinders, petrol, 4.0 litres prepared on the basis of 2010 GT2, petrol, 4.5-litre series production).
No diesel engines are allowed in LMP2. The displacement for NA engines is limited to 5.0 liter and for turbo engines to 3.2 liter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
The minimum weight in LM P1 remains at 900 kgs and is increased from 825 to 900 kgs in LM P2.
Last year diesel powered LMP1 car had a minimum weight of 930 kg.

BTW I think most of other forum members know the 2011 rules for a while.
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2011, 21:25 (Ref:2863983)   #1181
Audi Racer
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
United States
Posts: 1,623
Audi Racer has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennen View Post
Classic case of...If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Their Steel Rods were fine they didn't need to change to Titanium ones, just to save a few grams!

Can't wait to see how the R18 shapes up against the new 908. Although I expect both will have issues in their first seasons, as weve seen before with brand new cars.
Nope. You look for every advantage you can get. You say a few grams but you should understand that these grams are sloshing up and down at 5,000 RPM. All the parts in the engine have inertia. inertia only leads to internal resistance in the engine. all engines have a degree of internal resistance due to friction, inertia, etc... So if you can lighten it you do it. Its easier to make a quick car reliable not the other way around(how many times have we heard that lol)
Audi Racer is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 09:19 (Ref:2864185)   #1182
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi,

I think upgrading the materials leads to more reliability which is the focus for a 24 hr engine.
It's not as though the engine is spinning to f1 speeds. I think the gtl processed fuel allows the engines to rev to 6000+ rpm
anyone going to lm in june??

JOhn



Quote:
Originally Posted by Audi Racer View Post
Nope. You look for every advantage you can get. You say a few grams but you should understand that these grams are sloshing up and down at 5,000 RPM. All the parts in the engine have inertia. inertia only leads to internal resistance in the engine. all engines have a degree of internal resistance due to friction, inertia, etc... So if you can lighten it you do it. Its easier to make a quick car reliable not the other way around(how many times have we heard that lol)
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 10:07 (Ref:2864199)   #1183
sssssssss
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 972
sssssssss should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridsssssssss should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabian eeckhout View Post
The old peugeot was clearly desgined for one purpose and that was le mans. at le mans they beat the audi's with 2 or 3 seconds. but in the other races that advantage was gone.
I think as it stand right now with the new peugeot its the same story come le mans the car will be quicker than the audi.
again, last year at le mans they were that faster compared to the r15+ only becasue they tuned their engines to the maximum, thinking they will last... which they did not.
sssssssss is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 12:47 (Ref:2864265)   #1184
jellydonut
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
jellydonut should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
Hi,

I was listening to a youtube video of the new peugeot 908 hdi fap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=446bW0Z2zSk


and it sounds like they are running waste gated turbos not vg.
Surely that would make for a narrower power band?

Best wishes

john
Hello,

As was mentioned this is the old car. Video of the new V8 908 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZYxASTvTrQ

An odd sound. I realize this is the R18 topic, but it seems there is no Peugeot topic, and I don't have any more than this link to contribute regarding Peugeots so I figured it wasn't worth a new thread.
jellydonut is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 13:14 (Ref:2864277)   #1185
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellydonut View Post
Hello,

As was mentioned this is the old car. Video of the new V8 908 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZYxASTvTrQ

An odd sound. I realize this is the R18 topic, but it seems there is no Peugeot topic, and I don't have any more than this link to contribute regarding Peugeots so I figured it wasn't worth a new thread.
There is a Peugeot thread: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...125421&page=41 It's on the second page of threads.

And the video has already been posted there, I believe.
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 13:44 (Ref:2864285)   #1186
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi,

I am very surprised that audi have gone for a v6 at 616cc per cylinder whereas peugeot's v8 is approx. 462cc per cylinder. I wonder what the bore and stroke are in terms of top end and torque bias?
Certainly they don't run any road cars of this capacity per cylinder which is where they bench a single cylinder to analyse the characteristics.
Going above 1/2 litre per cylinder is unusual?
Anyone got any knowledge on the max rpm these diesel running gtl/ fischer tropsch process fuel?

Best wishes

John
N.B thx for the 908 video link!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
There is a Peugeot thread: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...125421&page=41 It's on the second page of threads.

And the video has already been posted there, I believe.
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 15:41 (Ref:2864320)   #1187
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Fourtitude write up of the Sebring test, and includes and expanded photo gallery:

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_6754.shtml
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 15:56 (Ref:2864326)   #1188
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hybrid electric motors

Hi,

It's a bit annoying that f1 don't quote the max amount of torque available via the electric part of the hybrid system. The strength of using the electric motors is that max amount of torque is immediately available. Therefore, you will see f1 drivers using the hybrid energy for 6.7 secs at the start of the straight which allows them to run more rpm/ bhp as long as the gearing is correct.
I hope the aco quote the limited max torque and power (kw) available.


John
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 16:22 (Ref:2864336)   #1189
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi,

Sorry for the moan, it's just torque is the forgotten poor cousin of bhp - and if your a dieselhead.........
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 16:24 (Ref:2864337)   #1190
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
This matters very little right now, because of how restrictive the ACO's rules are with using KERS as a power boost system (it's automatically activated), and that Audi and Peugeot currently aren't running such a system, as if the diesels have a torque shortage anyways

Also, the Fourtitude article says that the photogs were discouraged by Audi from taking photos directly into the cockpit. That said, there's Audi Sport's own photo of Dumas in the car (which prompted the steering wheel discussion), and there are a few photos into the car showing the wheel and the dashboard, and a brief description of the dash.

I'd expect Audi to release more detailed photos at the LM test weekend or the next round to studio shots.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 16:35 (Ref:2864342)   #1191
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
..... KERS as a power boost system
no it's primary purpose is a torque boost system pulling the car for first part of the straight
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 17:40 (Ref:2864367)   #1192
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Not really as far as the ACO and FIA are concerned--KERS systems on F1 cars is worth about 80 bhp for about 6.5 seconds, and the ACO, for that reason, have restricted the storage capacity to 500kjs, and can be only released automatically to kill off any chance that it can be a purely push to pass system.

Electric motors can release torque, but that's something that the diesels aren't lacking and with the reduced engine power outputs, that 80bhp is more important with the lowered straightline speeds, and without the ACO's restrictions, would likely be used as an F1 type push to pass system.

Also, Audi and Peugeot have forgone KERS this year because it adds weight and complexity to the car, and that 80hp might not be worth it until they get the weight down and improve reliablity--Red Bull's KERS system on the RB7 hasn't been especially reliable, for example, but that hasn't stopped their dominance this year, though the gap is closing.

However, with Audi and Peugeot design the R18 and the 908 around KERS means that they've thought about it, but it's early to adopt a system on cars that in and of themselves are new.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 19:43 (Ref:2864411)   #1193
MulsanneMike
Veteran
 
MulsanneMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
United States
Posts: 1,831
MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Not really as far as the ACO and FIA are concerned--KERS systems on F1 cars is worth about 80 bhp for about 6.5 seconds, and the ACO, for that reason, have restricted the storage capacity to 500kjs, and can be only released automatically to kill off any chance that it can be a purely push to pass system.

Electric motors can release torque, but that's something that the diesels aren't lacking and with the reduced engine power outputs, that 80bhp is more important with the lowered straightline speeds, and without the ACO's restrictions, would likely be used as an F1 type push to pass system.

Also, Audi and Peugeot have forgone KERS this year because it adds weight and complexity to the car, and that 80hp might not be worth it until they get the weight down and improve reliablity--Red Bull's KERS system on the RB7 hasn't been especially reliable, for example, but that hasn't stopped their dominance this year, though the gap is closing.

However, with Audi and Peugeot design the R18 and the 908 around KERS means that they've thought about it, but it's early to adopt a system on cars that in and of themselves are new.

Actually the ACO themselves had said KERs is not to be used for performance gain at all, but fuel efficiency:

Art 1.13:

The use of such a system must not be aimed at obtaining additional power but at reducing fuel consumption.
MulsanneMike is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 19:52 (Ref:2864416)   #1194
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by MulsanneMike View Post
Actually the ACO themselves had said KERs is not to be used for performance gain at all, but fuel efficiency:

Art 1.13:

The use of such a system must not be aimed at obtaining additional power but at reducing fuel consumption.

I am not sure how that would work - maybe to get and out of the pit lane/ box
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 19:57 (Ref:2864419)   #1195
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
I am not sure how that would work - maybe to get and out of the pit lane/ box
Some of the power that the engine would produce is produced by the electric motors, so the engine works less and uses less fuel for the same result in acceleration.

And it works, the 911 GT3-R hybrid got 1 or 2 laps more than anyone else out of its tank of fuel at the Nurburgring last year (and considering that a stint there is 8-9 laps...)
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 21:04 (Ref:2864441)   #1196
gucom
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 254
gucom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
And it works, the 911 GT3-R hybrid got 1 or 2 laps more than anyone else out of its tank of fuel at the Nurburgring last year (and considering that a stint there is 8-9 laps...)
if I'm not mistaken, the GT3-RH had a different size fuel tank than the other 911's so it's hard to directly compare their fuel economy...
gucom is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 21:06 (Ref:2864444)   #1197
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi,

Does anyone know if the audi / peugeot diesels have compound or bi-turbos

John
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2011, 21:43 (Ref:2864465)   #1198
jellydonut
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
jellydonut should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyardley View Post
Hi,

Does anyone know if the audi / peugeot diesels have compound or bi-turbos

John
Noone knows engine details yet, but there's a rumor going that the Audi has a single VGT turbo inside the V as opposed to one for each bank, outside the V.

An example of such a configuration http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ine/index.html

The turbo on that one is pretty interesting, a 'single sequential' unit whereby two compressors are driven by a single exhaust turbine.
jellydonut is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2011, 06:13 (Ref:2864711)   #1199
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gucom View Post
if I'm not mistaken, the GT3-RH had a different size fuel tank than the other 911's so it's hard to directly compare their fuel economy...
It had the same tank size as the R8 LMS Audis though (120 l).
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2011, 12:30 (Ref:2865004)   #1200
johnyardley
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
leics
Posts: 57
johnyardley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi,

I can see the sense of using 1 vg turbo in the v of the cylinder banks.
However, turbos work more efficiently when the exhaust gas pulses are at 120 degree intervals as per 1980's f1 turbo twin turbo v configuration.

John


Quote:
Originally Posted by jellydonut View Post
Noone knows engine details yet, but there's a rumor going that the Audi has a single VGT turbo inside the V as opposed to one for each bank, outside the V.

An example of such a configuration http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ine/index.html

The turbo on that one is pretty interesting, a 'single sequential' unit whereby two compressors are driven by a single exhaust turbine.
johnyardley is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion Simmi North American Racing 9260 5 Mar 2024 20:32
[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion Gingers4Justice ACO Regulated Series 6771 18 Aug 2020 09:37
Nissan LMP1 Discussion Gingers4Justice Sportscar & GT Racing 5568 17 Feb 2016 23:22
How about a LMP1 Pro & LMP1 Privateer class Holt Sportscar & GT Racing 35 6 Jun 2012 13:44
[LM24 Race] Audi LMP1 Poster all art deco'd. blackohio ACO Regulated Series 2 27 Oct 2011 06:30


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.