Entry fee increase

[JR Ewing]

Mattray
I think Combe 1600s are £165?

[mattray]

last year most place were the same price around 160 which was 15 more then the year before. All except Donnington which was 175 so now Brands is 190 I dread to see what Donnington is going to be!!

your right Combe is still 165 which is around the limit of what I would pay and a lot of other people I race against!

Matt

[DSM]

Last year we were paying £175 for single and £250 for double headers - BRSCC. In the same series, but for BARC rounds we paid £140 for single races. Testing was £125 at Anglesey, £195 at BH, Oulton and Snet and an unbelievable £390 at Donington (And they still charge £2 for CC). It looks like this year will we £190 and £275 for race entries. If we get 15 mins qual and race thats around £6.50 per lap at least.

[darcym]

Just mailed the BRSCC,

just done some simple math. I race in the castle combe FF1600 championship, and assuming every race is a single event (2 are double headers but lets assume) if I compete in all 8 rounds (1 less than last year) my race entry fee is up £320 from last year.

I have lost 1 round and pay an extra £320 per year ???
Not to mention that the 2 double headers are not the standard £190 ??

Coupled with the new transponder rules my grand total is £500 extra this year just to compete, and loose 1 round. I have not even got the car out of the garage yet.

Still being new to all this is this the norm each year, a crippling bill just to actually turn up ????

I have mailed the BRSCC asking what extra I get for my money ?

Looks like there goes my hopes of joining in the king of kent mini series, or even the festivals this year.

Thanks BRSCC

[ss_collins]

SEMSEC? £25 membership, super low entry fees, being able to do three races on one day for the cost of one at the other end of the county at brands, intersting cars, mixed grids, good fun. Its what clubbing should be. Lydden and Combe are the only two venues I know of that have got it right.

[Les]

reading between the lines on the VW-cup forum they are not very happy and are leaving the series by the truck load.

The Supercoupe cup looks as if it will be good this year...

[RMR]

darcym,
How you doing? Be very interested what the response will be, but I doubt you get anything. Thats quite a depressing figure youve calculated. I was really looking forward to the season but now have doubts if I can do a championship,may just do the odd race.

I'd be interested how much it cost for club racing in other countries?

[darcym]

Hello Richard,

well its not all that bad, but still stinks, I have just found out I made a mistake in that the combe races are still £165 per single event (unknown for the DH's) but the king of kent mini championship looks out of the question as Brands SilverStone Mallory etc are all up to £190 for this mini championsip plus I forgot the championship entry fee for the king of kents......Its still gonna sting BAD !!! and any more increases and I'll have to knock it on the head and just do the odd race here and there competeing in a championship is great as you get to know the regular drivers you race against them and use them as benchmarks and despite the regular arugments it is good atmosphere and I'd be dissapointed to loose that be racing on an iregular basis however as Matray pointed out most people are on the limit of their budject at £165 per race any more increases kills me out of the championship, and I already have big doubts on the festivals £190 and the king of kents mini series.

Dissapointing at why the BRSCC appears to be pushing people out of the championship. If people have money to burn they can go to the zetec races or the Arpa F3 races I don't understand what pushing up the price of low cost raise will achive ??

[ss_collins]

yes I think £165 is a fair fee anything more and I'd expect at least 40 or 50 minutes track time.

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by darcym
If people have money to burn they can go to the zetec races or the Arpa F3 races

Don't get me started but I can assure you that (damage perhaps excluding) running a Zetec costs significantly less than an FF1600...

[darcym]

Jr - you have shocked me on this !

I have seen zetec cars come up for sale much cheaper than FF1600's in the past, but I assumed that was because once they where no longer "cutting edge" they where sold of chea to private racers to enter in less official races, but the running costs where high.

Perhaps you could drop me a mail off the board (don't want to change a good topic) and explain this

[ss_collins]

I'd like to know that too.

[JR Ewing]

There are some (FF1600 Combe mainly) people who might disagree with me but I can assure you that the Zetec engine is a modern, fuel injected unit and unless you stick it in first repeatedly instead of third it will run forever. I know of people who have not rebuilt them since 1994 and they still run as well now as then.
The oil (if you run the proper stuff) is a bit more pricey. They use less fuel, being injected.
If you run loads of new tyres they cost money but second hand tyres are readily available from £free upto about £10 and these will generally run for about 500 more miles (300 laps) at around half a second off the ultimate pace.
The gearbox is the same so costs the same.
Spares might be more pricey if damaged, as I said.
Dampers - if you fun fancy schmancy ones, they do have service costs but the basic Bilsteins are the same as FF1600 ones.

Don't get me wrong - you can't run a Zetec in the National series on FF1600 money, but you can do it cheaper in club Zetecs, such as 750MC, Monoposto 1800 and BRSCC Northern and Southern Zetecs which have a pre'99 class.

No more facking around with carbs - push off trailer, jump in, press button, drive on track!

If you are doing local FF1600s (anywhere) and are bored with the tracks Zetecs in the above series will save you money.

All the series mentioned are less competitve than most FF1600 series, in my experience, and you might spend more in travelling of course, but you can buy the car and run without any expense for years!

I know the 750MC champ from 2001 wouldn't know a new tyre if he saw one, ran on old Bilstein dampers and had an engine that hadn't been rebuilt since 1996 - and he won the King of Kents at the Festival last year!

[verglas]

Just want to get this thread back 'on-track', the answer to the BRSCC problem has already been given, allegedly a few years ago they ploughed a fortune into the Eurocar championship which then went spectacularly belly up despite the promo money received form BRSCC. The club, I believe very nearly went bust and has been on the brink ever since. Of course, no one will substantiate this...A shame for the FF1600 brigade whose races are all under the BRSCC umbrella and who seem to be ignored by the BARC, unless there is some way that they can be lobbied to include FF1600 on their varied and interesting programme. In addition, it might be worth contacting some of the journos who visit this forum to see if they can influence Motorsport News and Autosport to print something about the feelings of discontent that club competitors have especially toward BRSCC. Personally I find the clubs decision to increase entry fees by such a huge amount indefensible, especially when other clubs are actively reducing costs for the club racer. Just my views, natch!!

[Ian Sowman]

Is this where I come in then? Well, what I'd do in the first instance if I were you is write to Motorsport News and Autosport yourself. A letter is a good start and can be the spur for a news story or feature that follows. It also proves that it is something that the competitors themselves are interested in.

If the disparity between BARC and BRSCC entry fees really is that apparent then that makes it evne more interesting, especially as it is only the BRSCC that runs FF1600 series.

I'll pass your thoughts on to the people that matter at MN and Autosport...

[Stuart Hill]

As an experienced marshal surfing the forum, to say that I am stunned by just how much you guys have to pay is an understatement!! Having just undertaken to start a new marshalling club, funded by donations from drivers in our chosen discipline, I'm beginning to wonder if I've gone the right way. (I was hoping for £10 per year to clothe marshals in overalls etc).

While I was trying to justify my asking competitors for more money I stumbled over a true description of an Event. The idea came from my fire-training.

Imagine an "Event" as a Three-Legged Stool,
If any of the legs are missing........the stool falls over and fails!
So what are the legs?
Venue,
Competitors,
Marshals.

Loose any of the 3 and the "Stool" falls over.

In my humble opinion, that makes everyone equal. If any of the three leave, the other two have nothing to do!

So why does it always semm to me, that the only leg looking to screw the others, is the one that has the most to lose?
The Venues aka Organising Clubs.

Drivers can find another championship
Us Marshals are always in demand...but.....

if noone wants to compete in any certain championship, then they don't have to! What happens to that championship??

Like I said, I am (not going to say just!!!) a Motorsport Marshal and a fan of racing but I am going to repeat a line that I've used many times "on-the-hills".

Question: "We could'nt race without marshals"...

Answer : "We'd look pretty stupid, standing here in orange, if you guys did not spend your money and turn up!!"

I don't have answers for you guys and apologise for jumping into your thread but, I never realised just how much you people have to spend just to entertain us !!!!!

Thank-you very much and just let the Marshal's Forum know where you might be if you choose to switch championships.

[Snapper Baz]

Firstly, I wrote a letter on the subject last year to Autosport...it never got used...presume if had used the word "F1" in it somewhere it would have! In Autosport today the BRSCC claim that this years visit to Croix has been cancelled...talking to competitors there last year everybody thought that they could have done a deal on fee's etc to entice more entrants as it was a bit lacking. Now, I woder why they had no takers this year...do you think they are getting the message yet???

[ss_collins]

I'll be at Lydden!

[mattray]

Stu the Crazy,

all good points but to make a leg of a stool we need enough people (competitors)to make a stand. So any competitors seriously wanting to have a voice why not write to the mags? and get together at the first race of your chapionship or get a list of competitors registered from the championship coodinator and start a drivers asociation type thing?

I know Wayne Poole tried this at Combe with little success but I am sure it can be done!

Matt

[darcym]

A drivers "group" would be good for each championship, that way 1 voice can represent all the drivers in issues such as the pay increase. One of the stipulations in participating in the drivers group is abiding by decisions made in the drivers group - i.e. if the minimum weight limit is set and no-one wants to change it....thats the end of the subject. If you don't like it then you don't get to participate in the group.

This would be the only way you could effetivly put all the drivers views on something like prices across to the BRSCC.

[DSM]

But we already have co-ordinators for each series/championship, don't we? I thought one of their functions was to do exactly what you are talking about, darcym?
Sad thing is that all of the drivers in our Series, formula Honda, agreed to make the reverse gear optional (It is NEVER used). Our co-ordinator agreed and amended the proposed rules to take it into account.
On publication what do we find? No change from last year, Reverse must be there, no reason given, not a comment.
Given that this year's rules still contain absurd errors from last year that were also pointed out, the conclusion has to be that no-one at the BRSCC even read the rules proposals, let alone thought about them.
If formal representations like this are ignored, what could be different about a drivers group?
I know this sounds defeatist but I think the only way is to leave the shortsighted bodies, such as the BRSCC for other more understanding ones such as BARC, 750 etc. an hope that they get the message before it's too late.

[darcym]

I am still new to all this so nieave on this topic.

To be quite honest given the choice I would not want to leave the BRSCC as to their credit they have well run races, the run events at the tracks I enjoy and I can't complain too much in truth. However the rise in price (all be it ammended and not as bad as what I had first thought) is getting a little silly, I get the impression that this is quite a regular yearly increase ? at what point will the price rises stop ??? when there is no one left to race. Again as matray pointed out, this will never happen as there is always someone rich enough to race, however my feelings where if a current group of drivers for a championship where to suggest to the BRSCC that they would no longer want to race for this fee (including people who could afford to race - but still present a united front) and ask for a reasonable reduction for the next event, the BRSCC would have to listen as (I think) the majority of the grid would be part of the drivers group as despite petty arguing everyone just wants a good race for a fair price thus the BRSCC would have to a.) drop the fee b.) end the championsip in which case people would go and find other racing.

I supose I should stop going on about this now that I have found out the the price increase is not as bad as first thought for my championship however I think it sad that other should suffer such a high price increase and would hate to see my prices go up any more

[Rod Birley]

Well,last year a number of drivers "abstained" from the BRSCC events at Lydden because their entry fees were a lot higher than the other clubs which use the same venue. Not surprisingly there was a lot of criticism. Marshals were not happy at seeing small grids and some of the press reports suggested those series most affected should not be run again. However, the point was missed in that drivers were acting against the high entry fees. I have not yet seen the BRSCC entry fees for Lydden yet but the BARC have set their's at £118 with £70 for a second race.
Negotiations are taking place for a reduced entry fee at Brands with BARC saloon car races, for more details contact Peter Edwards or Andy Ratcliffe on saloons@barc-se.co.uk. you might be pleasantly surprised!

[verglas]

From what I can gather from posts on this thread I wonder whether the problem might lie with BRSCC SE Centre organised events, because Combe seems to have pegged its fees at last years rates. However, it does not look like good news for the proposed National FF1600 series that people want. Unless the BARC are lobbied to include it for next year. After all they used to be keen on FF1600, running one of the Junior championships back in the heydays of the formula. How about it chaps???

[martinparsons]

Just on a personal note here, I raced Alfa Chapionship for 14 years, but these days could not justify costs of traveling length and breadth of Britain for 30 minutes of track time week in week out. I now race in EERC only 6 or 7 races a year, but loads of time on track, if it was not for this i'm afraid I would not be racing.
One awnser would be more local championships, i'd be happy to do Brands every other week, travel costs alone would make it affordable.
Sorry off on a tangent here...i'll stop typing before i look like mr angry of london lol