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Old 28 Jun 2006, 02:03 (Ref:1643088)   #101
Steve Holmes
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Originally Posted by KA
I'm not sure I want to suggest this, but if #46 was the Group N car, then does that mean there may be an additional ex-Sytner Group A car (ie the second car built in 84) we still haven't accounted for?- and could this give any clue as to the identity of the car raced by the South Africans at the 85 TT?

In other words, what did Frank sell to NZ- 2x Group A cars as we originally thought, a Group A and a Group N (since rebuilt to GpA in NZ), or two x Group A, one of which had been rebuilt from a Group N car?
I have a photo of the Sytner/Morton car at Wellington in 1985. The car has 'Johnstone BMW' sponsorship down the side. Johnstone BMW are an Auckland (NZ) based BMW dealership. I also have a magazine article on a Group N BMW 635. In the article, the writer says the car was imported in 1985 by 'Johnson BMW'. I think this was a spelling error, and I think its supposed to read 'Johnstone BMW'.

Anyway, the article goes on to say the car is number 46 of 49 built by BMW in 1984, and that it went to Sytner. It also says its thought to be the only one of the batch built to Group N specs. It was apparently raced by Barry Williams, who crashed it heavily in testing, before it was rebuilt, and shipped to NZ in 1985. The Sytner Group A car first appeared at the January Wellington Street Race, so maybe they came out together.

The Group N car was never raced here, although that was the original intention. Instead, it was sold, and the new owner used it as a road car until 1997, when it was then rebuilt for the road racing endurance event Targa New Zealand.
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Old 28 Jun 2006, 07:23 (Ref:1643166)   #102
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Sorry, I forgot to mention. The Group N car is rhd. The Sytner/Morton Group A car is lhd.
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Old 28 Jun 2006, 23:25 (Ref:1643817)   #103
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I know of one production saloon 635 that was used in the Willhire 24 hrs, it was actually the dealers demo car and was prepared just in time for the race, decals put on, successfuly completed the 24hrs, was then quietly put back to road spec and sold on to some poor unsuspecting customer as low mileage ex demo car!! (hope he never looked underneath and found the holes from the roll cage bolts!!)
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Old 29 Jun 2006, 11:27 (Ref:1644102)   #104
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Found something interesting in a gallery of 635 pics-

http://www.bigcoupe.com/cars/othersi...s/exotics.html


A few easily recognisable Group A racers on there (Schnitzer, JPS, Hartge and Charlie O'Brien's ex-Sytner car), but check out the bottom centre pic- a rear view of what looks like a pair of Schnitzer cars in 'BMW M-Team 'and 'Original Teile' colours, but with a large rear wing on the 'Original Teile' car. Anyone got any ideas?
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Old 29 Jun 2006, 11:43 (Ref:1644109)   #105
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Hi KA,as the 635 started to struggle for pace a little, Schnitzer experimented with this large wing version.They took the car alongside a standard car to the Salzburgring track in Austria(the nearest one to their headquarters) in early '85 but tests were inconclusive and the idea was dropped.The photo comes from a report of the test in Auto Motor und Sport,one of Germany's top magazines.I think the biggest problem was that they would have had to homologate 500 versions with this wing and sales did not justify the expense.If the test results had shown a dramatic improvement I think the money would have been found and all the other competing makes would have had to do something similar.In the same article there was already a photo of the soon to be released M3 which quickly rendered the 635 obsolete.Ian.

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Old 29 Jun 2006, 15:44 (Ref:1644246)   #106
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Originally Posted by rallycrosscraig
I know of one production saloon 635 that was used in the Willhire 24 hrs, it was actually the dealers demo car and was prepared just in time for the race, decals put on, successfuly completed the 24hrs, was then quietly put back to road spec and sold on to some poor unsuspecting customer as low mileage ex demo car!! (hope he never looked underneath and found the holes from the roll cage bolts!!)
That's a cracker!

Wonder who's it was??!

From memory there were a few Prodsaloon 635'S in the mid 80's.

Barrie Williams as has already been said drove one wwith great abandon in '84 and both John Clark (a BMW dealer incidentally??!! whislte whistle) and a guy called Albert Mirko also pedalled them in 1984 in both Uniroyal and Monroe series IIRC.

Mirko also shoved some slicks on his and entered it for the Brands GP BTCC support race that year and quite politely kept out of the way of the front runners when getting lapped!

I think that like the Vitesse it's big Group A rival the car wasn't that competitive in standard spec probably due to weight.

The Starions, Capris and even Opel Monza seemed better suited to basic level racing.
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Old 29 Jun 2006, 20:32 (Ref:1644420)   #107
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Originally Posted by rallycrosscraig
I know of one production saloon 635 that was used in the Willhire 24 hrs, it was actually the dealers demo car and was prepared just in time for the race, decals put on, successfuly completed the 24hrs, was then quietly put back to road spec and sold on to some poor unsuspecting customer as low mileage ex demo car!! (hope he never looked underneath and found the holes from the roll cage bolts!!)
A certain Irish driver did exactly the same thing with a car he raced in prod saloons in the 1980s. I actually saw the car for sale in his showroom as an ex-demo and yes you could see the holes from the roll cage. Naughty boy ! The type of car and said driver will remain nameless for fear of recriminations
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Old 30 Jun 2006, 04:16 (Ref:1644605)   #108
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maybe ...

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Originally Posted by KA
Found something interesting in a gallery of 635 pics-

http://www.bigcoupe.com/cars/othersi...s/exotics.html


A few easily recognisable Group A racers on there (Schnitzer, JPS, Hartge and Charlie O'Brien's ex-Sytner car), but check out the bottom centre pic- a rear view of what looks like a pair of Schnitzer cars in 'BMW M-Team 'and 'Original Teile' colours, but with a large rear wing on the 'Original Teile' car. Anyone got any ideas?
There is evidence on the boot lid of E24-RA2-55 that may correspond - this car was 2nd at Spa in 85.
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Old 1 Jul 2006, 08:04 (Ref:1645517)   #109
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Hi Cavvy! What dou mean by evidence?Screw holes? Do you have any photos? Were you at that race? Ian.
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Old 2 Jul 2006, 20:09 (Ref:1646724)   #110
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Hi Cavvy,
Does #55 still exist? This was the Ravaglia Cecotto Bathurst car os `85 ?

Alex
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Old 2 Jul 2006, 22:12 (Ref:1646845)   #111
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#55

Alex E - the car is alive & well & currently receiving due care in the hands of occasional 10/10er Thunder Road aka Miles Johnson - stll in Bob Jane colours as Bob owns it.
You seem to think it met its Waterloo - where & when ?

Ian, I will ask Miles to photograph the boot & post it - he may know more about the [I]evidence[I].
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Old 3 Jul 2006, 20:25 (Ref:1647569)   #112
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Hi Cavvy, I just have a note next to #55 and in German it says `destroyed` with a date 2/85. But as we know it raced at Bathurst, & probably before in Europe I think it must be wrong. But most of them took a hit or two in their life, I have #60 here which was the other Spa car that had quite a hit.
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Old 5 Jul 2006, 06:45 (Ref:1648582)   #113
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Frank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFrank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA
Found something interesting in a gallery of 635 pics-

http://www.bigcoupe.com/cars/othersi...s/exotics.html


A few easily recognisable Group A racers on there (Schnitzer, JPS, Hartge and Charlie O'Brien's ex-Sytner car), but check out the bottom centre pic- a rear view of what looks like a pair of Schnitzer cars in 'BMW M-Team 'and 'Original Teile' colours, but with a large rear wing on the 'Original Teile' car. Anyone got any ideas?
Here's another picture: http://www.gaffersports.com/motorspo.../autos/693.php

It was a test for a possible EVO version of the 635, with an optimized 12-valve engine and spoilers like in the good old CSL days. There were two reasons why this never was followed by a production run: the M3 and the fact that the original 635 was surprisingly competitive until 1986.
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Old 5 Jul 2006, 08:38 (Ref:1648646)   #114
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Interesting looking beast Frank!

I'm so glad they didn't start homologating silly wing cars until the late days of Group A. The clean lines of the 635, Vitesse and XJS would have been ruined by them!
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Old 5 Jul 2006, 09:34 (Ref:1648706)   #115
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... but the German manufacturers made up for that a few years later by making silly cars as the Omega Evo and the Audi V8 Evo...
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Old 5 Jul 2006, 17:19 (Ref:1649018)   #116
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... but the German manufacturers made up for that a few years later by making silly cars as the Omega Evo and the Audi V8 Evo...
Tis true!

The V8 Quattro was a fairly standard lookin shell along with the M3 but The 190 and Omega were quite unweidly looking things!

Back to 635, it's certainly interesting that they continued to experiment with options for the car late in it's racing life and the '86 model's relatively good perfromance must have been testament to all that.
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Old 11 Jul 2006, 01:24 (Ref:1653072)   #117
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In Australia we first caught glimpse of the 635 model in Group C touring car trim in 1981, with Allan Grice at the wheel of the JPS entry.

The car caused abit of a stir, as it's main job for 1981 was to compete in the Better Brakes Touring Car Series at Amaroo Park, which until 1981 was open only to cars of up to 3 litres, but for that year was adjusted to a maximum capacity of 3.5 litres, allowing the BMW to enter. When it raced it ran away from the pack, though it broke in two of the rounds, allowing the trusty old Capri's to take the title.

The 1981 car still exists in Group C spec (in QLD from memory). A second Group C model was built in 1982 (JPS Team BMW ran a 2-car team at Bathurst that year, they wouldn't again until 1985), but as mentioned earlier was converted to Group A specs in 1985.
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Old 11 Jul 2006, 02:05 (Ref:1653082)   #118
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I remember this car fondly since it's the first touring car race I saw when I was a kid.

Stuck was driving one and I forgot who was his teammate, but they walked the field in the 83 Guia Race in Macau.

Loved that car ever since then.
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Old 17 Jul 2006, 08:39 (Ref:1658022)   #119
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Hi!! Is that it then?Has this thread petered out? Ian.
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Old 17 Jul 2006, 10:17 (Ref:1658067)   #120
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Only so much you can say about the old tanks I guess Ian. :-)
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Old 17 Jul 2006, 21:42 (Ref:1658630)   #121
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stymied by work

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Hi!! Is that it then?Has this thread petered out? Ian.
I will post the photos of the boot lid of #55 showing what may have been the mounting points for the bigger wing - Thunder Road has been too busy with the ZL1 Camaro to post.
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Old 19 Jul 2006, 19:58 (Ref:1660246)   #122
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Hmmm, was thinking that I remember a top bit of TV footage from the '85 Bathurst with Dicko and Big Jim side by side in their Mustang and 635 heading out of Hell Corner!

Jim was grinning and waving at the camera on board Dick's car!!

Then later in the race both JPS cars ended up alongside each other in the gravel and had to dig each other out, or so it seemed! Great laugh!!
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Old 21 Jul 2006, 16:21 (Ref:1661640)   #123
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We've mentioned a lot of cars in this thread- just wondering if it was worth trying to summarise what we know about individual chassis so far?- (think you did something like that part-way through the Rover thread?)

I'll see if I can pull some of it together to post later
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Old 22 Jul 2006, 06:23 (Ref:1661972)   #124
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Excellent, KA; just what I'm sure we were all hoping for! Looking forward to seeing it!
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Old 22 Jul 2006, 18:56 (Ref:1662258)   #125
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Just flicking through the Osterreichring FIA Touring Car report in Autosport of 19.06.1986 this evening, as you do Plenty of 635CSi's in that race, unfortunately theye were passed their sell by date then and outclassed by the Volvo 240Ts and the Rovers. Remember the French Labo BeeEm team of Rene Metge and Alex Guyaux ? I wonder what happened a lot of those 'also rans' in Europe and where the cars are today.
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