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Old 14 Jun 2015, 14:47 (Ref:3550330)   #1
Casper
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What Will The Next PU Be Like

F1 has taken the first step to be seen that they are conserving the Earth's resources so what will they do next when the present PU regulations expire? They can't go back to a single IC motor so they must move forward to more of a hybrid PU? Have they painted the category into a corner in this regard?
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Old 14 Jun 2015, 19:09 (Ref:3550430)   #2
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Dont understand the technicalities at all, but just give them V8 or V10s and let them develop them to mind blowing screamers.
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Old 14 Jun 2015, 20:59 (Ref:3550477)   #3
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F1 has taken the first step to be seen that they are conserving the Earth's resources so what will they do next when the present PU regulations expire? They can't go back to a single IC motor so they must move forward to more of a hybrid PU? Have they painted the category into a corner in this regard?
With the apparent success of the LMP1 rules it will be interesting to see if F1 looks in this direction or locks down the current PU's even more in an effort for "cost saving", while still charging $50,000,000 to host an event
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Old 15 Jun 2015, 00:06 (Ref:3550536)   #4
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As the hybrid it is will the PU have an IC motor that is dominated by the electric side of things to drive the car? I can see no other alternative, to unwind things and make the electric side either less functional or to abandon it altogether would need a lot of explanation when they trumpeted the fact that the series was going to be powered by a hybrid to bring it in line with the road cars of today.

I expect the electric energy recovery and use of that harvested power to be further enhanced and sooner or later the IC motor will become the lesser of the two, in fact they have no choice and will eventually meet up with Formula E. Will the two eventually merge, that is the big question yet to be asked. The development phase of FE will start next year and the cars over the next few years will become much faster to make them more attractive to the traditional fan.

If the present F1 category was to implode for cost reasons then the scenario I have outlined could be accelerated to some degree. Were that to happen the next F1 category must be cheaper to run for the teams and as it would be impossible for the category to go back to an IC motor alone they would have to build a simpler PU which would inevitably be more electric that anything else.

I know I am making a lot of assumptions and crystal balling maybe 10 to 15 years down the track but I can't see it going any other way and hoping for a return to an IC as the sole power source is dreamland stuff.
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Old 17 Jun 2015, 19:01 (Ref:3551632)   #5
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F1 will never revert to older out of date, dinosaur technology...

It must stop talking itself down...
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Old 17 Jun 2015, 19:56 (Ref:3551646)   #6
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Hydrogen fuel cell. It'll be interesting - as they'll probably have to manufacture some noise into it. It might also do away with gearboxes.

What do you guys think?
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Old 17 Jun 2015, 21:02 (Ref:3551667)   #7
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Hydrogen fuel cell. It'll be interesting - as they'll probably have to manufacture some noise into it. It might also do away with gearboxes.

What do you guys think?
Does it sound like a high revving V8 or V10?
If not it won't pass the Bernie test.
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Old 17 Jun 2015, 23:24 (Ref:3551702)   #8
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As the hybrid it is will the PU have an IC motor that is dominated by the electric side of things to drive the car? I can see no other alternative, to unwind things and make the electric side either less functional or to abandon it altogether would need a lot of explanation when they trumpeted the fact that the series was going to be powered by a hybrid to bring it in line with the road cars of today.

I expect the electric energy recovery and use of that harvested power to be further enhanced and sooner or later the IC motor will become the lesser of the two, in fact they have no choice and will eventually meet up with Formula E. Will the two eventually merge, that is the big question yet to be asked. The development phase of FE will start next year and the cars over the next few years will become much faster to make them more attractive to the traditional fan.

If the present F1 category was to implode for cost reasons then the scenario I have outlined could be accelerated to some degree. Were that to happen the next F1 category must be cheaper to run for the teams and as it would be impossible for the category to go back to an IC motor alone they would have to build a simpler PU which would inevitably be more electric that anything else.

I know I am making a lot of assumptions and crystal balling maybe 10 to 15 years down the track but I can't see it going any other way and hoping for a return to an IC as the sole power source is dreamland stuff.
How about a turbo-jet used as a gas generator to drive both the wheels and an energy storage system to be used in a load sharing configuration.
Would be much much lighter than the conventional IC engines and actually develop something that could be used in future road cars.

Oh sorry, too expensive, and not in the interests of promoting the current inefficient hybrid technology being foisted on motorists.
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Old 18 Jun 2015, 00:10 (Ref:3551718)   #9
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Anything they do will have to reflect what is mainstream in production cars and at least for the next ten years that is a electric storage type hybrid. It is interesting that some European manufacturers and MB is one have been sourcing technology and manufacturing licences from Tesla who are giving the licenses away for free and are building a huge new facility in the US to manufacture and research batteries. I keep saying it but I can't see anything else happening but a convergence of F1 and what is now FE, nothing else adds up. One advantage of an all electric series is the lack of noise as it opens up the places that can be used for racing and FE will doubtless use that to their advantage if they haven't already. I am also surprised that the mainstream press have not addressed this as well but I hold them in fairly low regard at the best of times.
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Old 26 Jun 2015, 17:13 (Ref:3554101)   #10
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Todt wants no change to the current engine formula.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119685
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Old 26 Jun 2015, 17:47 (Ref:3554111)   #11
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I see no major issues with the technical specs. Or at least large enough to hit the reset button. What is wrong is the ancillary stuff that deals with the ability (or inability) to develop the designs. In short how to allow someone like a Renault or Honda crawl out of the holes they have created in a reasonable amount of time. I still like the idea of a fixed and affordable PU cost that customers would be charged.

Richard
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Old 26 Jun 2015, 23:52 (Ref:3554166)   #12
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I see no major issues with the technical specs. Or at least large enough to hit the reset button. What is wrong is the ancillary stuff that deals with the ability (or inability) to develop the designs. In short how to allow someone like a Renault or Honda crawl out of the holes they have created in a reasonable amount of time. I still like the idea of a fixed and affordable PU cost that customers would be charged.

Richard
And allocating the PUs out of a pool so that designated teams do not get better PUs than the customer teams!
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Old 27 Jun 2015, 01:58 (Ref:3554175)   #13
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Just get rid of the silly rule of a limited amount of engines per season (The one engine per race is good enough) and up the ante with adding another turbo, a larger rev limit ceiling and double the ERS yield. F1 needs to be close the WEC/LMP1 when it comes to power outputs and power unit tech to be viable.
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Old 27 Jun 2015, 02:52 (Ref:3554181)   #14
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Just get rid of the silly rule of a limited amount of engines per season (The one engine per race is good enough) and up the ante with adding another turbo, a larger rev limit ceiling and double the ERS yield. F1 needs to be close the WEC/LMP1 when it comes to power outputs and power unit tech to be viable.
I engine per two races would work for me, turn them up, allow the use of more fuel.. I agree with idea concerning ERS yield, another turbo ? major re-design would be my issue with that..
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Old 27 Jun 2015, 03:01 (Ref:3554182)   #15
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Just get rid of the silly rule of a limited amount of engines per season (The one engine per race is good enough) and up the ante with adding another turbo, a larger rev limit ceiling and double the ERS yield. F1 needs to be close the WEC/LMP1 when it comes to power outputs and power unit tech to be viable.
Just say you can run the car at 400 kg without ERS, or 500 kg with ERS!

See how many of them run ERS then!

(Given that 4 Mega Joules; sounds impressive; equals 1.1 kilowatt hours! Big deal!)
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Old 27 Jun 2015, 14:23 (Ref:3554244)   #16
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Just say you can run the car at 400 kg without ERS, or 500 kg with ERS!

See how many of them run ERS then!

(Given that 4 Mega Joules; sounds impressive; equals 1.1 kilowatt hours! Big deal!)
Thats an accurate but extremely silly and irrelevant statement as the entire 4 Mega Joules is released in a few seconds. You might as well have said its 5362 horse power for one second. This is also true and about as meaningful.
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Old 28 Jun 2015, 04:14 (Ref:3554375)   #17
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Bring back the Ford DFV.....I'm over saving the planet,I want wheelspin,oversteer and overtaking.
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Old 28 Jun 2015, 10:12 (Ref:3554404)   #18
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Bring back the Ford DFV.....I'm over saving the planet,I want wheelspin,oversteer and overtaking.
I've been asking for the return of the DFV but it keeps falling on deaf ears.
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Old 28 Jun 2015, 12:41 (Ref:3554423)   #19
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As much as I am a fan of the newer turbo engines from a technical standpoint, there is something missing from an emotional standpoint. I just watched the 1994 season review yesterday and by god, those 3.5l screamers delivered some proper emotions. These cars weren't just loud, they also had the special aura of challenge and excitement.
I know that today's society puts much emphasis on conserving our ressources and I'm all for that. But who's doing more for the enviroment? Racing fans that travel to a GP by public transport or Formula 1 that castrates itself to please the greens? I'd say, if people want to make auto racing greener, make sure fans can access the races properly by public transport. As for the racing itself: Why not try to make the "old" technology as efficient? Why not prove that naturally-aspirated engines with a high displacement can be as efficient as small turbos? Or even better, why not just take over the regulations from LMP1? Let it be the other way round this time, let Formula 1 take over the regs from sportscars. Because sportscar racing is about efficiency as well, but they managed to do it far better than Formula 1.
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