McLarens Annus Horribilisus

[VIVA GT]

Going back to the McLaren drivers...
It struck me before the Monaco race that JB appears to me to be turning into a latter day Graham Hill. Always chipper with a cheery comment for the BBC, and despite the woeful situation he finds himself in, generally finds something to joke about during his interviews.
Now, I've never seen his feet during these interviews, but wouldn't be surprised to find that he's wearing Brogues instead of racing boots. (A fitting match to go with his stiff upper lip!)

[Graz]

Other than constant grid penalties, is there a rule to stop Honda constantly upgrading their engine and treating each GP weekend like a test session i.e. screw engine tokens, just develop the engine as much as they like and take the penalties or is that totally not allowed? They're harming 2016 with the way things are now.

[chillibowl]

i guess i am alone in thinking that using the the media to shape public opinion is one of the biggest catalysts for change in the world.

i guess Merc's willingness to discuss engine changes for 2016 is the result of everyone just putting their heads downs and quietly recalculating their sums and not from the public pressure being placed on them.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119414

anyways agree to disagree as i have hijacked this thread enough

[chunterer]

They are the best drivers (or type of drivers) to have at a time like this.

One who exudes competitive instinct from every fibre of his being (sometimes to his detriment) and one calmer, take as it comes sort of driver who can still deliver when he needs to. The feedback from the pair of them will be broadly similar but will also be very different in terms of performance 'feel'

Alonso has been mega in the opening laps of the last few races making up tonnes of ground before inevitably getting picked off by quicker cars. He has lost none of his desire at all which is great to see. He is chomping at the bit to get nearer the front again and I hope his patience stays intact!!!

Button has done well to pip him in qualy a few times but then qualy was never an Alonso priority in recent years, he preferred to set things up for a race distance.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by sparkione

It's not worth much, chum. Which planet where you from again?

You are welcome, chum.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i guess i am alone in thinking that using the the media to shape public opinion is one of the biggest catalysts for change in the world.

i guess Merc's willingness to discuss engine changes for 2016 is the result of everyone just putting their heads downs and quietly recalculating their sums and not from the public pressure being placed on them.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119414

anyways agree to disagree as i have hijacked this thread enough

Actually I think you are talking about something different now. I do agree that media is the largest driver of public opinion and change. But I do think its a big and messy hammer for some problems (McLaren/Honda)

Only Mercedes knows, but I doubt public opinion is a large factor with respect to them being open to PU concessions. IMHO, it is a combo of private pressure from inside the F1 community (other teams, FOM, etc.) or maybe they just think the status quo is not good even if they are winning and realize it might be what is needed at the risk of them loosing an advantage.

(Edit: To be fair... Any potential change in how the sport is run such as helping the likes of Renault, Honda and even Ferrari are likely due to a general perception (which may also be reality) that F1 is in trouble and that public opinion is a driver of that perception)

Richard

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Jenson Button is earning very good money to drive for McLaren Honda.. He is under contract to perform his duties, any other questions ? I did not think so...

I don't think he's there for the money, and plenty of drivers have up and left due to a poorly performing car.

[Paradise City]

From a political and commercial point of view Mclaren should be lobbying the powers that be -- although I detest whining. It would probably produce results alright.

From a sporting pov its cheeky. They signed up to the rules and they screwed up. Live with it until the next cycle and then they can work to get back on par.

But I suppose the days when F1 was run on sporting principles are long gone.

[Armco Bender]

McLaren & Honda have both been involved in F1 for 50 odd years.
Hard to believe they wouldn't come up with something slightly better.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Actually I think you are talking about something different now.

yep. rereading my posts in this thead and i am indeed all over the place! not fair to move the goal posts like that. sorry.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

McLaren & Honda have both been involved in F1 for 50 odd years.
Hard to believe they wouldn't come up with something slightly better.

I think they have, it's a stunning car if you take a close look ..
They will deliver the goods I promise you ...

[Armco Bender]

Hopefully they will be delivering sooner rather than later,first half season report card is none too flattering....

Jenson Button 11 Ret 14 DNS 16 8 Ret Ret................................................................................................. ............................
Fernando Alonso - Ret 12 11 Ret Ret Ret Ret

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

From a political and commercial point of view Mclaren should be lobbying the powers that be -- although I detest whining. It would probably produce results alright.

From a sporting pov its cheeky. They signed up to the rules and they screwed up. Live with it until the next cycle and then they can work to get back on par.

But I suppose the days when F1 was run on sporting principles are long gone.

You suggest them of doing something which they are not and then use it as an example of how F1 is cynical now.
In the Red Bull thread it would be a little fairer.

Maybe they should sportingly withdraw and send their cars to the North American races entered under a different team, or sportingly build a car to threaten to go to Indycar. The. We can get back to days that are long gone.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Adam43

You suggest them of doing something which they are not and then use it as an example of how F1 is cynical now.
In the Red Bull thread it would be a little fairer.

Maybe they should sportingly withdraw and send their cars to the North American races entered under a different team, or sportingly build a car to threaten to go to Indycar. The. We can get back to days that are long gone.

My post was phrased poorly. I meant to praise Mclaren but wound up thinking about Red Bull.

[Adam43]

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

McLaren & Honda have both been involved in F1 for 50 odd years.
Hard to believe they wouldn't come up with something slightly better.

The onboards with Mr Alonso, the glimpses we saw from the British GP, seemed to offer plenty of steering lock on their current chassis. Maybe the downforce, and front wing, still need some work.. as well as the offering from Mr Honda...

[Casper]

It defies belief that Honda did not extensively track test the PU during development before it became part of the F1 entry. I notice that McLaren are starting to concede that damage is being done to both their own brand as well as Honda's and it cannot be allowed to continue.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Casper

It defies belief that Honda did not extensively track test the PU during development before it became part of the F1 entry. I notice that McLaren are starting to concede that damage is being done to both their own brand as well as Honda's and it cannot be allowed to continue.

How do you extricate yourself from a deal with a company not only giving you a free engine, but also largely funding your racing season??

There are plenty of stories from back in the day when Honda built a V12 engine to replace its long serving V10... that Mr Senna complained delicately that the old engine was better than the new one...

I would have thought the Honda engine would be on a couple of transient dynos 24/7, with the engine usage characteristics and loads sucked out of the McLaren data captures, to push the engines as hard as they can go, as heavily boosted as they can go... to get more performance. Even if only for qualifying...

Or are they waiting for the Japanese Grand Prix for the updates?

[Paradise City]

The Honda return has been a fiasco in the short term. But they are a serious company and Mclaren have been through this kind of mayhem before with their first year or so with Mercedes. The real test of a company is to rebound from this kind of chaos and both Mclaren and Honda should pass this test. But the rebounding won't happen tomorrow and resilience remains the key.

[Casper]

I can't find the link now but it was Boullier expressing his views on it all and I thought it was on the Motorsport Magazine site. They do not need a dyno, they need an installed PU in a chassis doing a thousand laps which they should have done beforehand.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Casper

I can't find the link now but it was Boullier expressing his views on it all and I thought it was on the Motorsport Magazine site. They do not need a dyno, they need an installed PU in a chassis doing a thousand laps which they should have done beforehand.

Found it http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bo...laren/?v=2&s=1

[Armco Bender]

1 point..

[littleman]

Let's get some perspective on this issue.

Since the introduction of the new Hybrid engines, it is quite obvious only Mercedes have got it right. Whilst the McLaren/Honda situation is clearly a dire one, all is far from harmonious amongst the Renault camp either.Red Bull have had enough and Torro Ross will no doubt follow their lead. Ferrari.......well they're not doing a bad job but the Merc engine is clearly still superior.

If F1 is going to stick with these new Hybrid motors, then the FIA should immediately relax all the regulations regarding up grades and testing, for say 12 months minimum?

Unless some level of engine performance parity is achieved amongst all the engine suppliers, then we could be heading for Formula Mercedes Benz.....and nobody, even Merc themselves, would want that.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Casper

They do not need a dyno, they need an installed PU in a chassis doing a thousand laps which they should have done beforehand.

Except the rules explicitely exclude this type of activity. Pirelli suffers from the same problem, that they can't get hold of a contemporary chassis with which to test new tyres or compounds. This is result of just one the stupid rules that have been introduced since this sport became a business of entertainment.

Back in the sixties, it was not uncommon to find yourself testing on a track at the same time as a F1 or F2 car on a Saturday afternoon. We used to pop down to Brands Hatch for the open days three or four time a year to try out different things on the car, and it was a major problem trying to keep out of the way of the much swifter formula cars. And if I could afford to spend the afternoon there (I had to work in the morning), and I didn't have a pot to p*ss in, then it didn't cost the formula teams an arm and leg either.

[Pole2Win]

As an outside viewer, I think Honda is the bigger responsible for McLaren's current situation. It's really hard to evaluate how competitive your chassis is when you can't utilize the engine's full power. It could be the case that the engine isn't a good match for the car, in which case McLaren's part in their mess would be much bigger, but so far I think McLaren has many more reasons to be angry at Honda than the opposite.

In light of that, McLaren is handling the whole situation much better than Red Bull. Their situation is far worse, yet they're not throwing potshots at their supplier.