McLarens Annus Horribilisus

[chillibowl]

should more be made about the poor pit stop to replace Alonso's nose?

one bad stop on its own isnt a big deal (for a backmarker) but taken in context of an noncompetitive season i cant help but wonder if their lack of performance in one department is carrying over to others.

rather the team has been out of so many races so early how much do they even get to carry out pitstops in race situations anymore?

[Sodemo]

Could there ever be a scenario where McLaren might quit F1? Thoughts?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Could there ever be a scenario where McLaren might quit F1? Thoughts?

I doubt that very much to be honest, McLaren exist to race in F1...

[chillibowl]

Williams stuck around and Mclaren have more resources so i cant imagine a scenario in which they would leave.

that said if they could use this as a threat or leverage to open up the rules i think that would be great. at least make a case for more track time so they could try to dig themselves out. RB Renault wouldnt mind and Ferrari would jump at it. bad for the small teams but we need there to be real competition at the top.

[Paradise City]

You'd probably see a subtle change in shareholding if Mclaren failed to show demonstrable signs of recovery. A new crew of 'behind-the-scenes' men willing to plough in the extra cash coupled with a fresh approach to revitalise the team. You'll never get a out and out pull-out from the sport with Mclaren.

[Paradise City]

Well, views expressed by Eddie Jordan have elicited a reaction from Dennis and he sure ain't happy.

McLaren boss: Eddie Jordan is village idiot of Formula One

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mcl...1.html?ref=yfp

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Well, views expressed by Eddie Jordan have elicited a reaction from Dennis and he sure ain't happy.

McLaren boss: Eddie Jordan is village idiot of Formula One

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mcl...1.html?ref=yfp

Given that Eddie has been walking around calling for Ron's resignation, I think that Ron's reaction is entirely justified!

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

You'd probably see a subtle change in shareholding if Mclaren failed to show demonstrable signs of recovery. A new crew of 'behind-the-scenes' men willing to plough in the extra cash coupled with a fresh approach to revitalise the team. You'll never get a out and out pull-out from the sport with Mclaren.

McLaren's whole allure is their F1 operation. Look at the P1. Full of F1 technology. If they quit F1 it would also hurt their sportscar business.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Could there ever be a scenario where McLaren might quit F1? Thoughts?

Unless of course Mr Dennis orchestrates a Honda-McLaren buyout....

[Akrapovic]

Can't help but agree with Ron. The only reason people listen to Eddie is that he made a thousand claims and 1 or 2 turned out to be correct. Some of Jordans seasons weren't amazing, at a time when F1 had far lower standards.

[bauble]

The Buck Stops Here!

This is intended to show who must accept the ultimate responsibility for any failure in a company!

Surely the Buck should stop on Dennis's desk, he runs the show, he ditched Whitmarsh for failure to win Championships.

Clearly the Honda/McLaren tie up is a disaster, who made the decisions?

For a team such as McLaren to be in it's current state is unforgivable, Ron should fall on his sword, but there is more chance of Marussia winning the Constructors title.

Conversations at the Grand Prix told me that some people are delighted to see the team's current plight. They are not universally popular.

[Akrapovic]

The difference between Ron and Whitmarsh is that Ron has achieved great things. Whitmarsh achieved nothing and was involved with too much dirty politics. Hell, he was only in charge for 1 race in 2009 before he lied to the TV cameras, which eventually led to Lewis being thrown out of the GP, a scapegoat was sacked, and some "I'm very very sorry" comments were made.

It might sound harsh or even double standards, but I'd give Ron more of a chance to get things sorted because he's done it before.

[wolfhound]

Eric Boullier has been talking about the current situation and urging Honda to change their culture to suit F1.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mc...-culture-aside

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by wnut

Given that Eddie has been walking around calling for Ron's resignation, I think that Ron's reaction is entirely justified!

Ron's reaction is certainly understandable but whether it's justified is a different debate. Given the hair raising depths that Mclaren has slumped to, it's a question that will be on people's minds. Jordan is reflecting that sentiment.

In any event, Dennis is in some post retirement comeback as boss. Even if things were going swimmingly his time heading the team was only ever going to be finite.

I wouldn't resign as of yet or I wouldn't force him out. Doing that is a bit too easy an attempt to solve problems that are too fundamental for that kind of solution. Also, there's no clear successor that I can see primed for that position.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Eric Boullier has been talking about the current situation and urging Honda to change their culture to suit F1.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mc...-culture-aside

Did he just recite the Red Bull v's Renault diatribe of a few short months ago?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Did he just recite the Red Bull v's Renault diatribe of a few short months ago?

Bouiller is in a stronger bargaining position than DM. Honda is pretty reliant on Mclaren for Honda's F1 stint not to turn out a complete fiasco, so Bouiller has a bit more room to be tough on Honda and get away with it.

Whereas Renault has won a bit recently and is very much prepared to either buy another team - devoting the bulk of its largesse to that team - or throw its lot entirely in with Formula E, leaving RBR permanently struggling for a decent powerplant. DM is in a tight spot and being a little bit quieter would help him one should think.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Bouiller is in a stronger bargaining position than DM. Honda is pretty reliant on Mclaren for Honda's F1 stint not to turn out a complete fiasco, so Bouiller has a bit more room to be tough on Honda and get away with it.

Whereas Renault has won a bit recently and is very much prepared to either buy another team - devoting the bulk of its largesse to that team - or throw its lot entirely in with Formula E, leaving RBR permanently struggling for a decent powerplant. DM is in a tight spot and being a little bit quieter would help him one should think.

Perhaps so, but you kinda get the feeling that Mr Boullier may be voicing the negative opinion for McLaren in a controlled way, such that the pressure on Honda is in place, but that pressure is applied by his boss Mr Dennis & the board of McLaren.

If Honda decides not to continue next season, which is a possibility, McLaren has no engine, and no major sponsor to speak of. And a poor constructors championship position, which will impact McLaren's share of the regular teev money.

The McLaren drivers may be used to running at the back from previous lives (Mr Button has 'enjoyed' slow Hondas before too...) but at some point, there will be a crack in a currently very polished public facade.

To me, the Red Bull boys & girls are actually handily enough placed. If Renault were to leave, their pals in AVL & Mr Illien could continue their design, manufacture and development of a 'Red Bull' powerplant if the will and wherewithal were there to support it. Especially if the bods at RenaultF1 are no longer required, and can be recruited to the new program. Perhaps even badged as an Aston Martin...

[spider]

I find Eddie extremely irritating. He jumps from one extreme opinion to another - and I'm confused what on earth he brings to the party, besides being the comical character of the broadcast (unintentionally).

It's clear where the problem is, and it's hardly arrogant of McLaren / Ron to be talking the talk. When Honda get it right, when they're allowed to get it right given the rule restrictions, they'll be back up there...but the next 12-or-so months is a bit of a write-off...

[chillibowl]

this is what happens when you fall behind on a story. Mclaren employed a pretty daft PR strategy by not answering the hard questions earlier this season and now they are here imo.

they created this vacuum in which the media did what they do by filling it with speculation and now RD has obliged the beast by filling the vacuum with a personal attack on a pundit whose job it is to fill that vacuum. its petty and personal and does nothing to refute the allegations.

RD made the story about himself and a personal vendetta. that makes the team look even more lost at sea imo.

i should add probably a bit demoralizing to the team as well as no doubt many/most people in the mclaren garage know EJ and some are probably even friends with him.

[VIVA GT]

OK, so as we all can see, McLaren are having a lousy year (so far).
EJ (who I am sure I've seen described on here as E-Jit, which sounds about right to me) thrives on being outspoken/controversial has made some outspoken/controversial & personal criticisms of Ron Dennis.
Ron has (and I don't class myself as a fan of his) made his reply to the comments, and in my opinion, has rather eloquently and amusingly put Eddie Jordan down at the same time.

[chillibowl]

it wasnt entirely personal though. its was mainly a professional criticism with a hint of baiting going on which RD responded to in a very personal way.

misdirected anger and Whitmarsh's exit seems to still be a sore spot for RD.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Hell, he was only in charge for 1 race in 2009 before he lied to the TV cameras, which eventually led to Lewis being thrown out of the GP, a scapegoat was sacked, and some "I'm very very sorry" comments were made.

not taking anything away from RD's accomplishments but thats not my recollection of Whitmarsh's tenure at all but if that is yours then surely you must acknowledge Ron's obfuscation during spygate as significantly worse to that of MW's no?

[Akrapovic]

I haven't commented on Rons involvement in Spygate, but I haven't heard enough about it. However with Whitmarsh, anybody who watched the race and the interviews afterwards knew immediately somebody was lying, because we heard 3 McLaren stories and none of them matched up. And after the radios were released by the FIA, it turned out Whitmarsh lied directly to the TV Camera. Now whatever Rons involvement in Spygate is, that's a separate issue. But this was Whitmarshs first race in charge and he immediately started with the lies. At least Ron waited a few decades and actually won things.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

However with Whitmarsh, anybody who watched the race and the interviews afterwards knew immediately somebody was lying, because we heard 3 McLaren stories and none of them matched up. And after the radios were released by the FIA, it turned out Whitmarsh lied directly to the TV Camera. Now whatever Rons involvement in Spygate is, that's a separate issue. But this was Whitmarshs first race in charge and he immediately started with the lies. At least Ron waited a few decades and actually won things.

Did Whitmarsh knowingly lie, or was he just repeating the lies that Hamilton and his engineer Dave Ryan had fed him. I don't think that we will ever know definitively, but it worth noting that it was Ryan that was sacked immediately afterwards, not Whitmarsh.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Did Whitmarsh knowingly lie, or was he just repeating the lies that Hamilton and his engineer Dave Ryan had fed him. I don't think that we will ever know definitively, but it worth noting that it was Ryan that was sacked immediately afterwards, not Whitmarsh.

that is also my recollection of that episode. MW was just repeating what he had been told...which isnt great of course but it is very different to being a liar.

its an interesting premise though Akrapovic...does past achievement excuse or forgive current failures?

certainly there is a strong case to be made that RD and his experience is what mclaren needs to weather this storm which should mean its completely fair play to question which one of his expertise is he bringing to bear on the current problem (which EJ sort of kind of did).

what was his role for their current position and what does he plan to do about it now?

at the very least, such talk would suggest a mature hand at the wheel.

however, trading blows with the 'village idiot' pegs him one step below the village idiot imo.

'who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?'

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

To me, the Red Bull boys & girls are actually handily enough placed. If Renault were to leave, their pals in AVL & Mr Illien could continue their design, manufacture and development of a 'Red Bull' powerplant if the will and wherewithal were there to support it. Especially if the bods at RenaultF1 are no longer required, and can be recruited to the new program. Perhaps even badged as an Aston Martin...

I don't see them building a winning engine in-house. They'd probably pull out before it came to that anyway.