Is Masters Too Big?

[Peter Mallett]

Whilst I don't advocate segregation, I can see the point, but of course big events have always been like that.

Imagine a weekend event with the Masters and Top Hat Masters series on the same bill at Brands or Silverstone/Oulton etc. Mouthwatering IMO

[zefarelly]

it is, and I went, raced with U2TC which is as near a level playing field as I can find, clean race, ran its distance without intervention from Sir John and the crew in mission control. finished just above midfield and a had a great race

incidentally looking at Top Hat ( where I was in a similar position the last few years) I would have been near the back . . . .now try telling me people aren't cheating cars don't get that much faster on their own and I haven't got slower before you suggest it, in fact a bit quicker !

[rogerwills]

All organisers should do a simple capacity check on the top 5-10 cars in every event in Parc Ferme. Its so simple to do. Within a season the people with big engines stop coming. Make it policy and it levels the playing field (on that issue anyhow)!

[terence]

I had already related this elsewhere on here but I remember quite a few years ago when at a drivers briefing we were told that the first cars home would all be checked.Then came the response from a certain Mr Marshall "So we,ll all be racing for second then".But it did work,some people dropped out ,others went missing [whilst their legal engines were being built],but then they came back .Im sure that this sort of thing would work again,as long as the various organizers implemented the threat.

[simon drabble]

several years ago HSCC announced that they would check engines at a meeting and 3 or 4 went straight on to their trailers and went home. Net result the few MGB's which come out in Guards Trophy are correct engine size....

[terence]

Ah yes,I remember it well.4Years if I rember correctly,JUST WHAT WE NEED NOW!!!!And there are three of the "trailored "car,s running 1950s now!!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

several years ago HSCC announced that they would check engines at a meeting and 3 or 4 went straight on to their trailers and went home. Net result the few MGB's which come out in Guards Trophy are correct engine size....

I doubt it - its been a long time since they checked. Have you seen how quick some of the MG Bs are?? I'd take a big bet they are not right.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

several years ago HSCC announced that they would check engines at a meeting and 3 or 4 went straight on to their trailers and went home. Net result the few MGB's which come out in Guards Trophy are correct engine size....

The HRSR, via the HSCC scrutineers had three engine capacities checked last season and all were correct as stated on entry forms - none, however, were in the FIA classes.
We have not - yet - had any checked this year.
Peter Wray

[simon drabble]

with HSCC they are correct - but there are only about 2 or 3 who come out with them as a result.
Different story in the 6 Hour. Last year for example an MGB did a sub 3.10 in the race - I do not believe however well driven you can do that in a correct car

[zefarelly]

as I stated earlier Peter its those racing under the FiA banner who seem to be the main culprits at the moment, possibly because of the good management of other series they're going elsewhere ? and the kudos people attach to other series under the guise of the FiA, perhaps the name/accronym should not be allowed to be used unless the cars are for real and checked ? papers seem top be worthless at the moment, no one asks to see them and most people take their cars to bits and modify the day after getting them issued!

[terence]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

with HSCC they are correct - but there are only about 2 or 3 who come out with them as a result.
Different story in the 6 Hour. Last year for example an MGB did a sub 3.10 in the race - I do not believe however well driven you can do that in a correct car

I,m sorry to post this Simon but,3.08.18 with the legal engine i,m using this year.

[john ruston]

This thread is now the same as 10 others.Yes caps.and weights should be checked as starters.Look at the recent pre war thread it all the same stuff
To impose these ideas you need an oversubcribed grid and invertation only.As soon there is a shortage of cars and organisers lose money anything will do ,continuation cars,oversize etc.etc.Good dictatorship is called for.Masters a good idea,badly organised.a lot of people pi...d off.
Zef.a note,its only five miles and old men like me seldom lose there balls,Its a lot cheaper than old crock racing and people dont cheat and its obvious when they do

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I,m sorry to post this Simon but,3.08.18 with the legal engine i,m using this year.

on Dunlops and totally legal FIA car? If so at 20k MGB's are the best bang for your buck!

[terence]

No ,ZZs,and yes,TOTALLY legal.Dunlop,s possibly 2.5sec.s slower.

[simon drabble]

so with Dunlops abt 3.11 still a reasonable time if you factor in the value against its time peers - they punch above their weight!

[terence]

Absolutly,and like a good woman,treat her right and she,ll alway,s be there for you.Is that a bit yukky?

[Peter Mallett]

So what we appear to be saying is tgat Masters is not too big, more likely its organisation is too small. The events are ok but suffer from clashes and the tachnical scrutineering is non existent, thus nobody with a 'legal' car is willing to race with them.

So the solution apparently, is to vote with our feet and go off racing elsewhere and leave those whom we believe to be cheating to enter all those great events?

Hmm, I wonder who the losers are in all this?

Bearing in mind that this is a small community our opinions may not matter too much but I guess someone could approach Chris with a few positive suggestions, but they'd have to be more than whinges about tyres etc.

[terence]

Or we start our own series,we only allow fully legal cars in,problem is we,ll only have 8cars on the grid.

[Peter Horsman]

If I was racing with the Masters this year (which sadly I am not) and I had a beef about eligibility of some competitors, I think I would firstly take it up with them privately. As it is, racing in the GD races for the past few years, I have enjoyed my races hugely and have no complaints either about my competitors, their cars or the organisation. However, I suppose that GD races are slightly different and there is no one else out in a car similar to mine so the point is less acute for me. But, have appropriate reps been made to the organisers/tech comm/series reps?

[terence]

I dont think there would be any point Peter,I know for a fact that most of the MGBs as an example ,where using 1950 engines.As was stated earlier,if a series claim,s FIA status,then they should police it to Fia standards.[Gentleman Drivers]That is.

[simon drabble]

having not run with GD since Carol sold it I cant comment on the new regime but I do know that in Carol's day it was policed very well - one of the reasons for its success.
I think the Masters thing can be summed up as saying that the racing is long distance (which most want) although there is disappointment that they have cut the GD race from its old 2 1/2 hours race time. In respect to the hospitality they are being penny pinching. I would say it would be better to have an open door policy as Carol did and if any driver/mechanic abuses the hospitality through over use or poor behaviour a quiet word is said. As I have said before I bought a Lotus Eleven from Gregor after a chat with him at Spa in his suite for GD. At the time ironically I was racing with Top Hat!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by Peter Horsman

If I was racing with the Masters this year (which sadly I am not) and I had a beef about eligibility of some competitors, I think I would firstly take it up with them privately. As it is, racing in the GD races for the past few years, I have enjoyed my races hugely and have no complaints either about my competitors, their cars or the organisation. However, I suppose that GD races are slightly different and there is no one else out in a car similar to mine so the point is less acute for me. But, have appropriate reps been made to the organisers/tech comm/series reps?

Its far easier to get on a bulletin board and criticise than do anything about it........

[Peter Mallett]

Seeing as I have only one whinge and I've already spoken to them about it I can't think of anything else to discuss.

But the old saw about FIA compatibility keeps coming out and nobody to my knowledge has actually approached them about it.

I hope they allow us (Group 1s) out on slicks next year (I know the Group 2 cars are planned to be so tyred). It would keep the speed differentials close and make for some fun races.

[terence]

Have they not! .Seem,s to me [and obviously a lot of others] that these gripes need sorting now.All of a sudden,these series will just fade away.Looking back over what,s been disscussed on here ,the FIA really do need to be seen to be taking action before thing,s get any worse.there have been many series/championships that have been and gone just by people voting with thier feet. Simon,as I have stated,most of the MGB engines in GD,were overbored,I know who used to build them!

[Peter Horsman]

Forgive my innocence/ignorance, is it for the FIA to enforce anything other than FIA sanctoned events; is'nt it for the inviting organisation to enforce their own regs? Maybe Spa 6 hours is an FIA event, but Masters is Masters?

You could argue that if 6 Hours is enforced, then these cars will have the correct engine installed, but I suspect that there may be a spare tucked away somewhere.........