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Old 28 Jan 2018, 01:22 (Ref:3795842)   #51
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It's not the cars or the racing that the majority of people are drawn by it's the drivers themselves. Swap the drivers in F1 and DTM around and see which series plummets in the ratings and which one rises.

For a series to compete they need prime time TV slots and super star names. There are already many series out there with far better racing and better looking cars but they are nowhere in terms of public perception.
You are correct that the star power is what attracts viewers, however prime time TV slots are the key to developing critical mass and forming new stars and stories.
With F1 conceding the FTA high ground, a competing series could move into the space that F1 has left and establish itself. FTA needs content, and the opportunity could be taken to fix F1's problems and establish a competing series. Difficult, but possible.

Drivers could be bought, and there are certainly plenty missing out on an F1 seat.

The secret of success is FTA prime time, and eyeballs, the rest will follow.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 01:33 (Ref:3795850)   #52
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could someone explain how starting the races at 10 past the hour rather than on it will help maintain or increase a tv audience??
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 01:58 (Ref:3795857)   #53
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could someone explain how starting the races at 10 past the hour rather than on it will help maintain or increase a tv audience??
My understanding is they are proposing a change of 1 hour 10 minutes. I stand to be corrected though.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 03:23 (Ref:3795896)   #54
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could someone explain how starting the races at 10 past the hour rather than on it will help maintain or increase a tv audience??
So a broadcaster can start a programme on the hour, have a quick pre-amble and some adverts, then the start.

Currently, if your market won’t stand an hour preview, you have to start at an odd time which doesn’t work well in some countries where everything runs by the hour.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 07:12 (Ref:3795993)   #55
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By 10 past the hour most viewers will have fallen asleep....
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 09:49 (Ref:3796030)   #56
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Even when I was a massive fan of F1 (15-20 years ago), I only ever tuned in 10 minutes before the race start anyway.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 13:19 (Ref:3796123)   #57
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We'll remain to see if this proposed change is really worth it. It doesn't seem that necessary to me
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 16:02 (Ref:3796259)   #58
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It's not the cars or the racing that the majority of people are drawn by it's the drivers themselves. Swap the drivers in F1 and DTM around and see which series plummets in the ratings and which one rises.

For a series to compete they need prime time TV slots and super star names. There are already many series out there with far better racing and better looking cars but they are nowhere in terms of public perception.
F1 will still be superior in the ratings. The drivers are only stars because TV made them. Swap the names and within months it would be "Fernando? Didn't he used to race in F1? What's he doing these days?"

Back in the 60s and 70s when F1 was hardly televised it barely raised an eyebrow beyond enthusiasts. F1 is headed that way again and will join the WRC as an interesting back water having once gripped a nation.

The big sponsors aren't interested in the die hard F1 fan, there's a finite number of those. They want mass market eyeballs, the casual viewer, the mildly interested viewer. <1million paying viewers in the country with probably the biggest interest in F1 doesn't justify an F1 team's rate card! If Sky UK has such poor viewing figures goodness knows how few people are watching via Sky Malaysia or Sky Vietnam or even Sky USA where F1 is definitely low down in the motor sport pecking order.

I used to record all GPs religiously, this year I struggle to remember which ones I've seen and there were only one or two. My business and my life is motor racing, but I'm afraid F1 is no longer a "must see". No matter whether it were FTA, cheap PPV or hugely expensive subscription, the whole F1 scene isn't good enough to demand my interest.




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Old 28 Jan 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3796264)   #59
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You could put 20 nobodies into F1, and within a year we'd have entire narratives and personalities assigned to them through the broadcasting.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 17:57 (Ref:3796346)   #60
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You could put 20 nobodies into F1, and within a year we'd have entire narratives and personalities assigned to them through the broadcasting.
social media helps a lot with that though. what used to be internal fanfiction about favourite sportsmen and the personality that fan thinks they have is now external and broadcast to anyone who follows. see: the nonsense around kimi's instagram.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 18:10 (Ref:3796351)   #61
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It certainly makes what goes on in F1 more accessible to see, which helps gain fans. That’s where Liberty have done well, in social media
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 18:19 (Ref:3796356)   #62
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social media helps a lot with that though. what used to be internal fanfiction about favourite sportsmen and the personality that fan thinks they have is now external and broadcast to anyone who follows. see: the nonsense around kimi's instagram.
It does, but I don't think even a silly social media account will counteract what happens in race broadcasts. Grosjean and Vettel are the best examples of being painted in very specific ways, and Alonso too of course.

Either way, if suddenly you had to replace 20 F1 drivers with drivers nobody had heard of, it'd be back to normal within a couple of years.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 19:26 (Ref:3796416)   #63
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It does, but I don't think even a silly social media account will counteract what happens in race broadcasts. Grosjean and Vettel are the best examples of being painted in very specific ways, and Alonso too of course.

Either way, if suddenly you had to replace 20 F1 drivers with drivers nobody had heard of, it'd be back to normal within a couple of years.
i agree. though looking at a specific case it will be interesting to see how opinions of sirotkin change throughout the season, if at all, based on the addition of the tv broadcast voice to the negative social media and forum noise.

formula e is a minority sport, but the way that sport is discussed and reported on is entirely shaped by the internet and has been since it was created. formula one is evolving from a "real world" presence on tv to a greater virtual one. where things will go wrong is if they assume that influencing the online world is the same as the telly one. arguably motogp have been bob on in that respect for a long while - their tv and online pov strategy seems to be both pitched correctly to levels of popularity and priced correctly.
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 21:49 (Ref:3796490)   #64
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F1 will still be superior in the ratings. The drivers are only stars because TV made them. Swap the names and within months it would be "Fernando? Didn't he used to race in F1? What's he doing these days?"

Back in the 60s and 70s when F1 was hardly televised it barely raised an eyebrow beyond enthusiasts. F1 is headed that way again and will join the WRC as an interesting back water having once gripped a nation.

The big sponsors aren't interested in the die hard F1 fan, there's a finite number of those. They want mass market eyeballs, the casual viewer, the mildly interested viewer. <1million paying viewers in the country with probably the biggest interest in F1 doesn't justify an F1 team's rate card! If Sky UK has such poor viewing figures goodness knows how few people are watching via Sky Malaysia or Sky Vietnam or even Sky USA where F1 is definitely low down in the motor sport pecking order.

I used to record all GPs religiously, this year I struggle to remember which ones I've seen and there were only one or two. My business and my life is motor racing, but I'm afraid F1 is no longer a "must see". No matter whether it were FTA, cheap PPV or hugely expensive subscription, the whole F1 scene isn't good enough to demand my interest.
This is my exact problem.
I would consider myself a hardcore F1 enthusiast/addict, helped a lot by the mutual support group at tentenths, yet F1 is currently struggling to maintain my interest, I am not sure that I can be bothered to watch it on FTA, let alone fork out hundreds of pounds to dig it out from behind a paywall.

If I were offered a really good racing product (1980s F1, F5000, Champ Car) on FTA, I believe I could forget 50 years of F1 fandom very quickly indeed.

World series cricket anyone?
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 22:16 (Ref:3796499)   #65
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returned to this thread a bit late.
Why? - because the Rolex24 of Daytona has just finished and I've been glued to the IMSA livestream for about 16 hours of it!
At the finish 2nd and 3rd overall were less than a minute apart, and in GTD there were FOUR cars all on the lead lap. And Lamborghini have just won their first-ever 24 hour race. All that plus the indomitable Hindy and team make it unmissable.
Who or what is a sirotkin?
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 08:51 (Ref:3796559)   #66
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Agreed, Daytona 24 was quite a good spectacle this year as opposed to the charade of F1 epitomised by this:
https://twitter.com/olliehancock44/s...07332074594304
I know I'm getting on a bit but but has this guy totally lost the plot? or is just me?
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 09:55 (Ref:3796568)   #67
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I would consider myself a hardcore F1 enthusiast/addict, helped a lot by the mutual support group at tentenths, yet F1 is currently struggling to maintain my interest, I am not sure that I can be bothered to watch it on FTA, let alone fork out hundreds of pounds to dig it out from behind a paywall.
The last couple of seasons I've watched all of the races or highlights (Channel 4 coverage) - but I haven't watched any of them live. It's all been recorded and then I'll watch it usually on a Sunday evening once I've 'finished' for the weekend. If it went behind a paywall I wouldn't bother with it. I can find other stuff to watch for a couple of hours on a Sunday if I have to!

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World series cricket anyone?
Errr.... No. That's up there with Golf for sports that are massively duller than F1.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 09:57 (Ref:3796569)   #68
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The last couple of seasons I've watched all of the races or highlights (Channel 4 coverage) - but I haven't watched any of them live. It's all been recorded and then I'll watch it usually on a Sunday evening once I've 'finished' for the weekend. If it went behind a paywall I wouldn't bother with it. I can find other stuff to watch for a couple of hours on a Sunday if I have to!



Errr.... No. That's up there with Golf for sports that are massively duller than F1.
That's exactly how I feel about this.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 12:36 (Ref:3796590)   #69
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How well is top tier boxing doing after their almost complete move behind pay per view TV? I guess they can’t be doing too badly if they are offering the boxers purses of £30-50 million for a fight.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 12:37 (Ref:3796591)   #70
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If I'm having to pay to watch something, sport or otherwise, then it's got to be pretty damn good.

For those of you, like me, who've just about given up on F1 then may I encourage you to give MotoGP a shot. It's absolutely brilliant,totally gripping from start to finish.

More often than not, you'll witness around six riders dicing for the lead, no holds barred, absolutely on the limit of adhesion. You'll see more overtaking in one lap than in an entire F1 GP. The riders are sensational.....possibly mad!

The bikes have no aero worth talking about, it's purely down to talent, skill and balls.......big balls!

I seriously got into it about 7 to 8 years ago and never looked back.It's what every F1 fan would really love to see.........but never do.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 13:36 (Ref:3796602)   #71
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In many ways, F1 is sailing into a perfect storm which will impact on TV viewers

Little interest from younger viewers coupled with too long a race format to hold their interest
Some falling interest from once dedicated F1 viewers who find that other things hold their interest and compete for their time plus they have a longer memory bank of how the racing was to compare the current offering to
Loyal core of viewers risk being alienated by harder to access or costlier viewing options
Meddling too much with the coverage risks putting off the core audience with too much razamatazz and gimicks
Strangely unengaging product due to dominance of key players and TV coverage does little to convey the speed of the cars
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 14:24 (Ref:3796621)   #72
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How well is top tier boxing doing after their almost complete move behind pay per view TV? I guess they can’t be doing too badly if they are offering the boxers purses of £30-50 million for a fight.
A LARGE portion of that for US based fights is off of the crazy numbers they get for arena tickets for fights. PPV helps as most are $50-150 but more and more people are going in with large groups at home. But ringside for multiple fights last year with $10-50k and sold out in minutes. The huge purses are also getting fewer, larger but more infrequent as only a few names can draw that well in house.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 15:15 (Ref:3796636)   #73
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For those of you, like me, who've just about given up on F1 then may I encourage you to give MotoGP a shot. It's absolutely brilliant,totally gripping from start to finish.
Totally agree, MotoGP and Superbikes is where the action is. I was coerced into attending a WSBK meeting around 10 years ago and have been a fan of 2 wheel racing every since. In fact the British SBK championship is one of the most hotly contended in the world and it's free to view if you can't attend a live meeting.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 15:54 (Ref:3796644)   #74
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...Little interest from younger viewers coupled with too long a race format to hold their interest...
this has been brought up a few times but is this an issue just facing F1?

seems to me most if not all major sports leagues are struggling with this issue.

no doubt in part because of changing subscription based/paywall TV models, the amount of entertainment choice, multiple TV/internet based devices in a single household, a multitasking generation and the length of the events.

changing viewing habits likely mean that in the long run viewing numbers will be on the decline in traditional (western) markets regardless of the of whether or not FTA/free internet streams become the norm again.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 17:02 (Ref:3796658)   #75
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this has been brought up a few times but is this an issue just facing F1?

seems to me most if not all major sports leagues are struggling with this issue.

no doubt in part because of changing subscription based/paywall TV models, the amount of entertainment choice, multiple TV/internet based devices in a single household, a multitasking generation and the length of the events.

changing viewing habits likely mean that in the long run viewing numbers will be on the decline in traditional (western) markets regardless of the of whether or not FTA/free internet streams become the norm again.

I think it is widespread, a report by the Premier Leauge (football) in the UK stated that the average age of fans attending the top flight games is 41 years old, so they are sitting on the same audience 'ticking timebomb' that F1 is. I have worked in motorsport and motoring live events most of the career, where the on-event attendance is 'dad and lad' then quite a big gap to the 40's to 60's - most of the larger events are now appealing to 'famallies' and having to invest more into things to entertain them other wise you won't get many/enough 20 to 40 year olds through the gate.


I agree that overall TV viewing will fall in Western markets for the reasons you outline and removing it from FTA takes away the chance to gain new viewers who happen to come across and start following it.
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