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Old 22 Jan 2004, 12:25 (Ref:846725)   #1
Sheila M
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Calling all Pit Marshals - Guidance Notes

I have been asked to write some "guidance notes" for use in pit lanes, as the Blue Book is particularly vague on the point.

I am thinking along the lines of:

No alcohol. No umbrellas on the wall etc., as these points do not appear in the Blue Book. We all say no umbrellas on the wall - but where did that come from? Experience.

I would welcome any suggestions as to what would and would not work in pit lanes round the country as I would like to try and do a definitive list which could be used on the occasions when we do "away days". A list of guidance notes would obviate the need to keep asking "do you do that here?" "Can this be done here?" "Do you allow that here?"

I have already started my list but I would welcome input from other chiefs, experienced pit marshals and trainees as to what you perceive should be included.

Thanks

Sheila
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 12:54 (Ref:846759)   #2
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On a similar theme, I'm putting together some notes for a friend who's just done the 'trainees' training, with the stuff they don't tell you. Once that's done (and I find somewhere to post it) I'll let you know.

Shiela, Croft doesn't have any particular 'specialities' when it comes to the pit lane, except to remember that the pit exit lights are controlled by the marshals on post 1. If a series is wanting specific control of the lights an extra person may be required there (it can get 'busy' flagging/observing/sweeping/switching lights there!).

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Old 22 Jan 2004, 13:15 (Ref:846782)   #3
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Sheila, I often hear driver "helpers" asking where to stand (behind which line etc) just before the start and then when can they go to the pit wall. I don't think that's in the blue book?

Alan, I've also done bits for training and could do some notes for you to look at and add in. All related to driver safety systems (belts, removable steering wheels, cut off switch, extinguishers etc) PM me if you want anything
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 14:00 (Ref:846833)   #4
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Mark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I've seen a few Pit Marshals who are less than curtious to competitors, team members etc, so perhaps a lesson in being civil to others might be warrented (This probably applies to other disciplines as well)!
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 15:43 (Ref:846947)   #5
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Originally posted by MikeM
Sheila, I often hear driver "helpers" asking where to stand (behind which line etc) just before the start and then when can they go to the pit wall. I don't think that's in the blue book?

You are right - the Blue Book doesn't tell them where to stand it just states the the wall should be kept clear of all personnel (other than signed on officials) until all the cars have entered the first corner. I'd like some ideas as to how to keep them off the wall until the cars have past the pit exit never mind reach the first corner (especially at Donington when we are short staffed)
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 15:46 (Ref:846957)   #6
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I've seen a few Pit Marshals who are less than curtious to competitors, team members etc, so perhaps a lesson in being civil to others might be warrented (This probably applies to other disciplines as well)!
One of the things I have written in my list of "Do's" "Don'ts" and "Consider" is ALWAYS be polite, courteous and watch the body language (yours and the person you are speaking to). NEVER lose your temper and don't enter discussions with anyone who is not a signed on official. (or words to that effect - can't remember now - it's at home and I'm in the office!)
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 16:00 (Ref:846991)   #7
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That's difficult and I guess every where is short staffed. I'll have to have a think about that one
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 16:57 (Ref:847101)   #8
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Originally posted by MikeM
Alan, I've also done bits for training and could do some notes for you to look at and add in. All related to driver safety systems (belts, removable steering wheels, cut off switch, extinguishers etc) PM me if you want anything
The stuff I've written is more in terms of the stuff that isn't taught at training - The BMMC training is fairly comprehensive on covering the basics of the safety side of things. My notes are more about the stuff we do before and after the racing starts, including where to get the dates, how to volunteer, signing-on procedures, driving the circuit, dealing with spectators / drivers etc., and a look at the wider areas of interest in marshalling, such as pits, assembly, parc ferme and startline, which weren't mentioned at all at the trainee session just completed, apparently.

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Old 23 Jan 2004, 00:29 (Ref:847673)   #9
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...and it's now online (one page still under contruction, but pretty much there). All comments gratefully recieved (unless insulting, obviously :P) www.geocities.com/alan_green6975/ag_page1

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Old 23 Jan 2004, 08:52 (Ref:847915)   #10
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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...and it's now online (one page still under contruction, but pretty much there). All comments gratefully recieved (unless insulting, obviously :P) www.geocities.com/alan_green6975/ag_page1

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Al, its looking OK. Are you eventually going to put bits in about all aspects of marshalling? If so and you want some input from me, please PM.

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Old 23 Jan 2004, 09:10 (Ref:847928)   #11
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I hope to put in bits about everything marshal-wise, to the best of my knowledge. I've done bits and pieces of most disciplines, so can put in what I know if it'll help new starters.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 10:43 (Ref:848040)   #12
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Sheila,
I like your bit about watching body language, that is very good, but I don't understand how you can do the job without entering into discussion at times with drivers etc, unless you consider them as signed on officials
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 12:19 (Ref:848130)   #13
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Sheila,
I like your bit about watching body language, that is very good, but I don't understand how you can do the job without entering into discussion at times with drivers etc, unless you consider them as signed on officials
Bob, I think I may have worded this incorrectly. There are times when people (like hospitality guests or stray spectators) will "have a go" at pit marshals for asking them to leave the pit lane, take their children out of the pit lane, stop smoking etc etc. It is these people that I was referring to. In my list of Dos Donts and Considers I have suggested that anyone with a problem should not enter into any arguments, discussions and should not be rude but should get the Chief Pit Marshal to deal with the situation.

Does this make more sense to you?

Have you any other suggestions as to what should / should not happen in a pit lane?

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Old 23 Jan 2004, 12:31 (Ref:848142)   #14
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petestenning should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sheila a problem i have come across is pit crew
etc in their sponsors colour scheme which just happens to be RED. We have to ask them to remove or cover up the offending article or stand way back from the pit wall.Asking a man to remove his top in summer is ok?, But the ladies have to wear
a borrowed coat, resulting in overheating.?
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 12:40 (Ref:848149)   #15
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally posted by petestenning
Sheila a problem i have come across is pit crew
etc in their sponsors colour scheme which just happens to be RED. We have to ask them to remove or cover up the offending article or stand way back from the pit wall.Asking a man to remove his top in summer is ok?, But the ladies have to wear
a borrowed coat, resulting in overheating.?
This is another thing I have address on my list - red or yellow jackets. At some circuits you can actually allow these people to stay on the wall AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT CLOSE TO A RECOGNISED FLAG POINT! Simply asking them (politely) to move is enough. As for asking a man to remove his top in summer, if this results in a bare chest then the answer has to be DON'T DO IT! I have spoken to Jonathan Palmer on this subject of red jackets (his entire team dress in corporate colours of RED jackets . I think the idea is getting through to the ordinary people (ie the 750 spanner types) that red or yellow on the pit wall is not good.

The people that won't understand are those that shouldn't be in the pit lane in the first place (ie hospitality guests, stray spectators, etc etc).

Also I prefer to see shoulders and midriffs covered up when people are on the wall - it only takes a small piece of debris to cause serious injury to bare flesh. I've covered this in my notes too!

Any other ideas/suggestions?

Sheila
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 12:48 (Ref:848152)   #16
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Sheila one thing I have noticed esp at larger meets was the dismantling of pit wall scafolding, covers etc for timing monitors during a race ie pit lane live. I've seen at Donny the covers over the wall - trackside. Maybe a line about only dismantling when no racing on and to be left safe not blow trackside. if not covered by the BB
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 13:10 (Ref:848171)   #17
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Sheila one thing I have noticed esp at larger meets was the dismantling of pit wall scafolding, covers etc for timing monitors during a race ie pit lane live. I've seen at Donny the covers over the wall - trackside. Maybe a line about only dismantling when no racing on and to be left safe not blow trackside. if not covered by the BB
Good point - bet I wasn't running the lane that day though because I don't allow dismantling UNLESS the team have a plane to catch and I stay with them to make sure they don't do anything untoward. Again, this isn't covered by the BB and it is something that I will put in the guidance notes.

I do realise that once I've done these notes they may be passed to other chiefs for comment/editing/putting through the shredder so I can't guarantee that anyone's suggestions will become part of the definitive guide.

Sheila
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 15:47 (Ref:848346)   #18
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Sheila,
I must say that I found the BARC pit lane marshals last year to be very good. They were prepared to discuss arrangements for releasing cars from the garages with the drivers reps, I don't think we could ask for more.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 16:16 (Ref:848385)   #19
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Bob, thanks for the comments - please see my PM to you.

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Old 27 Jan 2004, 01:43 (Ref:851798)   #20
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sf2001 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
we have some kart regs (i dont know about cars or bikes), but karts (direct drive) must be started in the parc ferme area of the paddock only

(not 100% certain if its a common thing, but we run that here in Northern Ireland)

on dummy grid (sometimes in pitlane), engines are not to be turned on until instructed
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Old 28 Jan 2004, 12:25 (Ref:853505)   #21
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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we have some kart regs (i dont know about cars or bikes), but karts (direct drive) must be started in the parc ferme area of the paddock only

(not 100% certain if its a common thing, but we run that here in Northern Ireland)

on dummy grid (sometimes in pitlane), engines are not to be turned on until instructed
Doesn't really apply to cars but thanks for your input anway.

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Old 28 Jan 2004, 15:59 (Ref:853810)   #22
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Just as well Sheila, I remember that rule during our brief run in karting, it was an absolute nuisance.
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Old 28 Jan 2004, 21:43 (Ref:854314)   #23
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As a trainee, (almost alone in the pit lane) I had great difficulty in directing cars to 'safe areas' when the teams were determined to keep to their preferred position despite that area being clogged up. It was becoming heated between teams as blocking was occurring. I think the teams need better advise training too.
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Old 29 Jan 2004, 10:16 (Ref:854875)   #24
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Tango,
If I am understanding you correctly, what you are trying to do is impossible. If you have one car in each garage and they all dropped in for attention during qualifying at the same time, as they are all longer than the garage is wide it will never work. If you then bear in mind that we are often two and sometimes three to a garage then the problem arises when only 50% or 33% have dropped in together. We as drivers realise this is liable to happen and try to be petient with each other. In the final analysis that is about all you can do as well.
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Old 29 Jan 2004, 12:26 (Ref:855061)   #25
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Bob, what would be nice to see is teams using a little common sense and not double parking!

I once had the rather dubious pleasure of yelling at an entire team who had decided to set up their kit just behind a breakdown truck which was trying to reverse up the pit lane at Donington to get out of the way so the session could continue. Their car came in and when I waved the driver to go round the breakdown truck he shook his head and pointed to his team and parked where he thought fit.

I often wonder what Paul Stoddard and his team thought of me when I called the entire crew morons for not paying attention to what they were being asked to do!

Generally speaking, if cars are in garages they do try to stop somewhere close to that garage but I would really prefer it if cars did stop in the working area and not in the other two lanes.
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