[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[MitchZ06]

Yes I meant the mfgers will have a head start in that they can develop their KERS systems better than a privateer buying a customer KERS system.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Yes I meant the mfgers will have a head start in that they can develop their KERS systems better than a privateer buying a customer KERS system.

Can't imagine there's anything to stop a manufacturer selling on their KERS system to a privateer willing to put up the cash?

[The Badger]

I reckon this cost cut crap is a load of bull . If they really want to cost cap P2 ..... make them all open toppers and let the big wigs (P1) go the coupe route .

It would also help with class defination as P1 would be Coupe and P2 Spyders .

Kers aint cost capping . Cost capped wheels ..... gimme a break .

[JAG]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Yes I meant the mfgers will have a head start in that they can develop their KERS systems better than a privateer buying a customer KERS system.

Given privateers, and possibly some manufactuers, will be buying systems from the likes of Williams who have had years of experience from F1, they could have the initial advantge.

Lola mentined they were developig energy recovery systems too.

I reckon this cost cut crap is a load of bull . If they really want to cost cap P2 ..... make them all open toppers and let the big wigs (P1) go the coupe route .

It would also help with class defination as P1 would be Coupe and P2 Spyders .

Kers aint cost capping . Cost capped wheels ..... gimme a break .

P2 is going to be open with reg stability for five years, P1 will go the coupe route. KERS etc. is only going to be allowed in P2.

Re. 2014, will P2 and GTE also use the fuel formula, I would assume so but it will be interesting to see just how stringent their fuel allocation is.

[ger80]

Yes, keep LMP2 simple. Also dont see the point of LMP2 in WEC - LMS and ALMS should be enough ...

[lms]

Originally Posted by JAG

P2 is going to be open with reg stability for five years, P1 will go the coupe route.

i thought that this coupe-only roule was created to improve safety, or was it not? now i really dont see the point of not allowing spyders in p1 when p2 can still have spyders...

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by ger80

Yes, keep LMP2 simple. Also dont see the point of LMP2 in WEC - LMS and ALMS should be enough ...

Huh? The WEC has to have and should have all four classes that compete at Le Mans.

Plus, the first years they will really need all the entries they can get.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

P2 is going to be open with reg stability for five years, P1 will go the coupe route.

The issue is that eventually P2 is going to look like P1. Lola, Oreca, and company will probably stop developing open cars and focus their development on closed topped cars for P1. Those cars will eventually be cheapened for cost-capping and will become the P2 cars. Lola is already going the coupe route for P2.

If you like open-top prototypes, you better enjoy seeing them now because they will probably be extinct in a few years in P2 (and certainly P1 it seems) either by rule or by the natural flow of things. It'll be a bit sad not to see open-top cars because I thought the variety really added to the show. The Peugeot vs. Audi battles were more dramatic IMO when the cars looked vastly, vastly different. They still look different, but not to the same effect.

[TF110]

Coupes look awesome, regardless. Diversity or not, if you pay attention to this type of racing at all, you know the difference between Audi and Peugeot. Though, the helicopter camera shots can get confusing. But I say leave the open cars for P2 and have the coupes for P1.

[MitchZ06]

P2 looks like P1 already...remember the 2011 Lola P2 Coupe Level 5 ran? I thought it was a P1 car until I noticed who was running it.

[TF110]

I knew it was a P2 because it was all black (if that's the car you speak of). No P1's are all black, that one R18 comes close though.

[MitchZ06]

Being more of a GT fan I hadn't kept track of what was going on in LMP hence the confusion...

[Mal]

The ACO has said that the P1 class is principally for manufacturers. If it gets enough of those to fill the P1 grid then the P1 privateers wont be considered and will be expected to go to P2. That is probably why the big P1 privateers are so keen to link up with a manufacturer (as well as the money it brings, of course)

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Mal

The ACO has said that the P1 class is principally for manufacturers. If it gets enough of those to fill the P1 grid then the P1 privateers wont be considered and will be expected to go to P2. That is probably why the big P1 privateers are so keen to link up with a manufacturer (as well as the money it brings, of course)

If they really are going to chase this they need to watch out. Everyone knows what happened the last time there was a full grid of manufacturers. Everyone left and it let the way to one marque winning for a lot of years. Costumer cars are the backbone of Le Mans imo. They better not forget that.

[vyselegend]

Originally Posted by Mal

The ACO has said that the P1 class is principally for manufacturers. If it gets enough of those to fill the P1 grid then the P1 privateers wont be considered and will be expected to go to P2. That is probably why the big P1 privateers are so keen to link up with a manufacturer (as well as the money it brings, of course)

Indeed, it's not really a problem of losing privateers team in P1 (they can engage factory cars ala Oreca), but it's about losing the privateers as LMP1 constructors! (Lola, Dome, Pesca, Oreca, Zytek, Radical, Epsilon, Creation...) Looking from that angle it plain s**ks, because they add so much to the variety of the field. And mostly, even if you are often bored by the "Lola class" in ALMS, you have to realise without that great constructor there would have been no LMP1 this year over the pond!

Privateers rocks as constructors, especially when car makers are so frivolous with their engagements to the sport.

One the other hand if all that people move to LMP2 it would make the class so much more exciting, and would give some appeal to the new (decapitated) Le Mans Series...

[JAG]

The LMP900 era had too many manufactuers leading to underfunded, average cars that were no match for Audi.

The ideal situation would be manufactuers suppling a couple of customer cars apiece, and the likes of Lola, Wirth and ORECA suppling well developed customer cars with engine options from Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc.

Of course, there will be some crossover between manufactuers and constructors, i.e Wirth may become Honda's representative, ORECA and Nissan, Zytek servicing Nissan engines etc.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

Indeed, it's not really a problem of losing privateers team in P1 (they can engage factory cars ala Oreca), but it's about losing the privateers as LMP1 constructors! (Lola, Dome, Pesca, Oreca, Zytek, Radical, Epsilon, Creation...) Looking from that angle it plain s**ks, because they add so much to the variety of the field. And mostly, even if you are often bored by the "Lola class" in ALMS, you have to realise without that great constructor there would have been no LMP1 this year over the pond!

Privateers rocks as constructors, especially when car makers are so frivolous with their engagements to the sport.

One the other hand if all that people move to LMP2 it would make the class so much more exciting, and would give some appeal to the new (decapitated) Le Mans Series...

But some of those could well tie up and work with the manufacturers.

[Simmi]

Interesting stuff here regarding next season from an ACO technical bulletin.

7% reduction in power for the diesels amongst other things? Will that be enough?


http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...owed-for-2012/

[deggis]

In more detail: http://www.lemans.org/en/races/inter...ions_5410.html

Maybe there were this time less "guessing":

In this context, the ACO and the FIA carried out a wide-ranging study to analyze the performances of the cars, and then to decide on the appropriate measures to be taken. A number of tools were used in the context of this survey: readings by timing systems specially installed at Spa-Francorchamps and at Le Mans, some of which the teams entered for the Spa-Francorchamps 1000 km (7th May 2011) and the Le Mans 24 Hours (10-11 June 2011) were unaware of, the information provided by the data loggers installed on the cars this year and all the times recorded on the different circuits.
In addition, the engineers were contacted and asked to provide under guaranteed secrecy all the technical information about their engine.

Beaumesnil: The groundwork carried out with the FIA demanded in-depth research. Our main objective was not to put everybody on an equal footing in terms of performance (lap times), but to define the true potential of each of the competing technologies

Another thing Dagys didn't mention:

To improve rearward visibility (with the exception of the LM P1s), the size of the rearview mirrors will be increased, and they must be equipped with a night mode as well as an electrical adjustment system that enables the driver in the cockpit to alter the rearview mirrors to meet his needs. The camera system at the rear will be mandatory on LM GTE cars and allowed on all the others.

The complete sporting regulations will not be announced before the 30th November 2011 after the next meeting of the Endurance Commission scheduled for 21st November 2011.

Same for technical regs?

For 2012, the number 1 will be attributed to the manufacturer having won the 2011 LM P1 manufacturers’ title in the 2011 Intercontinental Le Mans Cup.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Interesting stuff here regarding next season from an ACO technical bulletin.

7% reduction in power for the diesels amongst other things? Will that be enough?


http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...owed-for-2012/

Also the fuel tank cut even further, from 65 down to 60 liters. That might be the crucial difference...


Sounds like the ACO also know of a factory petrol P1 effort on the very near horizon and want it to have a fighting chance against Audi and Peugeot.

EDIT: Even with these reductions, I wouldn't be surprised if the pole time in 2012 is a 3:24-3:25 again and it's set by a diesel.

[deggis]

This extract is taken from a document called “Sporting guidelines 2012 FIA World Endurance Championship.

Otherwise that's the same as in the WMSC decisions last month, but the part saying "In order to control costs, there will be limits on private testing and the number of engines used during a season" is no longer there. I dunno if it's supposed be if the Comission is still pondering those things.

[Simmi]

Looks like some fairly interesting developments for LMP2 John Dagys is tweeting.

Each chassis manufacturer must sell at least one of each model to a WEC team apparently. I'm not sure how that will be enforced if no one wants to buy one...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Also the fuel tank cut even further, from 65 down to 60 liters. That might be the crucial difference...

Thinking about number of laps per stint at Le Mans, I wonder how much the smaller restrictor will reduce fuel consumption, and therefore the smaller fuel tank size is to prevent getting an extra lap compared to last year.

[ger80]

Why dont they leave LMP2 for LMS/ALMS?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by joeb

Thinking about number of laps per stint at Le Mans, I wonder how much the smaller restrictor will reduce fuel consumption, and therefore the smaller fuel tank size is to prevent getting an extra lap compared to last year.

The engine power is said to be reduced 7%, while the fuel tank size is reduced by 7-8%. So the number of laps per stint will probably stay the same.

It will be interesting to see next year which of the two diesel manufacturers will benefit from the smaller restrictor and lower turbo boost. Audi did not have the ideal engine configuration (6 cilinders and single turbo) this year, so the rule change might help them a bit.